Late war NMF 65 sqn Mustang operations over Norway?

[Terry McGrady]

Originally Posted by runeha

Hi!

Are there any chance that some of the Mustangs used in late-war raids over Norway were in Natural Metal Finish. I've seen pictures of NMF planes both from 65 and 315 (Polish) sqn. and I know that both squadrons operated over Norway.

Any help appreciated

Best regards
Rune
Norway

Yes there were > In fact the Squadron flew both camouflaged and uncamouflaged MKIV/ IVA as did 19 Squadron. 315 only operated MKIII .None of these were uncamouflaged during the period of operations
over Norway from the info I have . Contact me at terry.jackie@btopenworld.com
over the weekend and I'll dig out some photo's of 65 taking off at Peterhead.
Cheers
Terry McGrady

[atckyrre]

As Terry said 315 Sqn did not strip their Mustang III's until after the war. But 65, 19 and possibly 234 Sqn flew their Mustang IV Silver Birds over Norway in the last months of the war.
If you get Halvor Sperbund's "Brennpunkt Westküste" there are a couple of 19 sqn QV-marked Mustang IV's. The book comes highly recommended. And if you don't want to get the book just contact me by PM or offline

Kyrre

[Alex Smart]

Hi,

You are probably already aware of the order of 8th March 1945 that declaired that all RAF Mustangs were to drop their coloured camouflage schemes.[Ref: Camouflage & Markings N A Mustang].

If the Attacks you are looking at is before the 8th March then I would doubt that any RAF Mustang was un-camouflaged.

Indeed, the 65 Sqdn a/c that came down in Sweden were both camouflaged. FZ110 YT-S in May 1944 and KH695 YT-E in April 1945.

'695 still wore the fuselage Sky band .
Also IIRC both these a/c had the fin fillet.
Hope this helps

Alex

[Terry McGrady]

Alex
65 as did 19 flew both camouflaged and uncamouflaged MKIV over Norway KH695 YT-E certainly had a fin-fillet It was a MKIVA -P51K
So far have managed to identify 42 MKIV/IVA which serves on 65 , the Majority of which were un camouflaged . Mustang at war has a photo line upof 65 Sq
which both camoed and "Silver" Mustang MKIV/IVA purportedly at Peterhead.

[atckyrre]

Originally Posted by Terry McGrady

Alex
65 as did 19 flew both camouflaged and uncamouflaged MKIV over Norway KH695 YT-E certainly had a fin-fillet It was a MKIVA -P51K
So far have managed to identify 42 MKIV/IVA which serves on 65 , the Majority of which were un camouflaged . Mustang at war has a photo line upof 65 Sq
which both camoed and "Silver" Mustang MKIV/IVA purportedly at Peterhead.

Veeeery interesting information Terry. Is this something you're planning to have available for the general public at some point?
I trust you've seen the Modelling Aircraft Monthly covering quite extensively the III's and IV's of the RAF? If not let me know...
Also have you got Nyerøds book covering his time with 65 Sqn? Admittedly he flew the III's only, but there are quite a few interesting photos

Kyrre

[Kjetil Aakra]

In Sperbund's book (Brennpunkt "Westküste") it is mentioned that both 19. and 65. Sqd. had converted to Mustang Mk IVs which were called Silver Mustangs or Silver Birds for obvious reasons. This was in late March 1945. There is one ophoto there of YT-Q KM148 (flown by Johnny W. Foster). I also have a couple of photos of QV-F KH818 (unknown date) which is also "silver".

So silver Mustangs were obviously used over Norway in the last few months of the war.

Regards,

Kjetil

[Franek Grabowski]

Problem of colours and markings of RAF Mustangs is a subject of several misconceptions and errors. I would suggest to avoid old Ducimus booklet as it is more misleading rather than helpful.
Concerning silver Mustangs, all teardrop aircraft (Mk IVAs) but a short batch of Mk IVs were delivered in NM/silver. Few of them received camouflage but this was exceptional. I have no definite proof but I believe Mk IVs ultimately lost their camouflages unless previously destroyed.
Most if not all Mk IIIs were delivered in camouflage and most of them retained it until struck of charge. A few aircraft lost camouflage and saw service during the last month of war. I do not have a complete list of serials yet but of those identified, neither flew over Norway without a paint.

[Terry McGrady]

Originally Posted by atckyrre

Veeeery interesting information Terry. Is this something you're planning to have available for the general public at some point?
I trust you've seen the Modelling Aircraft Monthly covering quite extensively the III's and IV's of the RAF? If not let me know...
Also have you got Nyerøds book covering his time with 65 Sqn? Admittedly he flew the III's only, but there are quite a few interesting photos

Kyrre

Hi Kyrre Yes I've seen the articles in MAM Many of the myths regarding Mustang Colour schemes re-iterated . Some useful photo's but the articles did little to get to grips with the issue.
The vast majority of the Mustangs supplied to the RAF Camouflaged were painted in the US this includes P51D-5NT and P51K until the RAF agreed to accept unpainted A/C late September 1944 . Those sent to MAAF tended to be used in as supplied schemes until such times as they received major overhauls and were repainted as deemed necessary.Those in the UK - some werre repainted owing to poor quality paint finishes and during major overhauls. The early MKIII were certainly repainted as these were supplied in DG/DE
Whether or not the ANA colours were used is a matter for conjecture, but photographs exist of early Mustang MKIV being shown at the Dallas Facility in camouflage ALL MKIV /IVA A/C supplied to the RAF and RAAF were Dallas Built with the exception of some trials A/C
A few Mustang III in the SR406-440 series were received "unpainted " these were P51B-10 &15 A/C along with other P51B-1 & B5 in OD /NG
The reason for this is that they were supplied from USAAF stocks in the UK to replace 35 Mustang III in the FX*** series transferred to the USAAF on arrival in the UK late 1943
As for writing a book - No . It would then become too much like work and not fun
Terry

[Franek Grabowski]

Terry
I forgot about SR series, sorry!
For camouflage colours, I would generally recommend modellers to use RAF shades for ETO aircraft but few exceptions like Horbaczewski's FB382 PK-G.
That is all what I want to say at the moment, I am far from considering the subject closed and I do not want to make any comments that may lead to further misleading.
Cheers