Jg 27 Bf 109s w.nr. 2623 ans 2747(?)

[chuckschmitz]

Ok, is there a 2623 with JG 27?

[chuckschmitz]

Following up on the previous, anyone have anything on w.nr. 2761 or 67? Thanks.

Chuck

[G.R.Morrison]

No JG 27 match with 2767; it went from 2./JG 26 to the Erg. Gruppe JG 26, where it was eventually lost when the student pilot baled out.

I drew a blank with 2761.

I agree with Jim that Lippert seems the most-likely "suspect," for I cannot think of any pilot in 5./JG 27 that would have had 18 claims by that point. The photo we have shows 17 Abschusse on the fin in the three locations, and WNr.2023 large and perfectly legible.

GRM

[ouidjat]

Hi Jim and Morrisson,

You maybe right concerning 2023. I'm just surprised that the victory board is displaying like on JG 3 machines.
On late plane(s) used by Lippert there is nothing like that.
I have no answer and - as I said - I accept Lippert flew on 2023 but: at the time this picture was taken?

Regards, Franck.

[G.R.Morrison]

Franck,

Abschußbalken are displayed on the fin on early JG 51, JG52, JG53, JG 54 and JG 77 aircraft, too. Sometimes it continued with the 109F (Leesmann's of I/JG 52, and Trautloft's F-2 had them on the fin, before they were repainted on the rudder). A different Lippert 109E-4, WNr.4148, also has them on the fin (see Ries' Bilanz am Seitenleitwerk, page 76.

BTW, my last name has just one 's' - although 'ass' has two, and sometimes I'm mistaken for one. ;-)

GRM

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Without question the first a/c is W.Nr. 2023. An excellent photo of this scoreboard exists in a private collection, only displaying 17 instead of 18 victory tabs as seen here. It is reputed to be the a/c of Hptm. Wolfgang Lippert, the Gr Kdr of II./JG27. However, the problem is that photos now exist of this a/c with both 17 and 18 victory tabs, and Lippert's official tally was only 16 by 01.11.40, his last victory in the west during 1940. His unit flew in the Balkan Campaign during April-May, 1941, but he scored no more victories until the first day of the Russian Campaign, June 22nd, when he officially scored his 17th and 18th victories. This would suggest that the photo was taken in Russia, but the a/c displays no yellow fuselage band. The foliage however, indicates at least mid-spring through early fall, so I'm not sure where that leaves us. It's possible that this is Lippert during the Battle of Britain, but displaying some tabs that represent victories that were never confirmed. Or else this is at the beginning of the Russian Campaign and Lippert's a/c had not yet received it's yellow fuselage band. Or it is NOT Lippert's a/c but belonged to some other pilot in a II Gruppe.

I'm very interested in seeing how this settles out.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[ouidjat]

Morrison,

My sentence wasn't complete then...
I'm not talking about the fin against the rudder I'm talking about the arrow up for a plane shot down in air and an arrow pointing down for a plane destroyed on ground.
I don't remember to have seen that except on JG 1/JG 3 planes.

Regards, Franck.

Sentence corrected.

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by G.R.Morrison

Franck,

BTW, my last name has just one 's' - although 'ass' has two, and sometimes I'm mistaken for one. ;-)

GRM

I would have never thought so!

[Stig Jarlevik]

Excuse me for barging in

Chuck
What makes you believe the photos are from II./JG 27 in the first place?
Statement on the back side or just seller's own statement?

All
I must say Franck has a point. Arrows were not common and to me the most famous one using that was von Werra....

With regard to the WNr, I can only see the two digits 2 reasonably clear, but perhaps they are much better visible on the originals.
Having said that why is the last digit 5 impossible? Are WNr 2025 and 2625 totally out of the picture?

Cheers
Stig