Ltn Hermann Leube

[Alain57]

Hi Tony ,

These are the Stirling losses for that night.

2/08/1943 3/08/1943
7 Stirling I R9260 MG-O Oakington
Sgt B G W Balster 2318 Hamburg Crashed at base on return
Sergeant G Breedon
Flight Sergeant J Gilmore
Sergeant W V J Gould
Sergeant R Hutton
Sergeant R Norris
Pilot Officer W E Stenhouse

2/08/1943 3/08/1943 2/3.08.43
Sergeant A S Biffin 214 Stirling III EF409 BU-V Chedburgh
Came down in sea off Wilhelmshaven Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant C D Curtis Killed Becklingen War Cem Bomber Command
Sergeant J J Evans Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant A B Grainger PoW Bomber Command
Sergeant G D Loveridge Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant A A R McGarvey PoW Bomber Command
Sergeant J P Taylor Killed Runnymede Bomber Command

2/08/1943 3/08/1943 2/3.08.43
Pilot Officer C P Bailie 75 Stirling III EH928 AA-A Mepal

P/O C P Bailie 2314 Hamburg Crashed off Terschelling
Killed Lemvig, Denmark Bomber Command
Sergeant E F Hunting Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant J Isherwood Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant E Millward Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant T Purdie Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant W H Thompson Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Flight Sergeant J Thomson Killed Runnymede Bomber Command

Regards

Alain57

[Tony Clifford]

Hi Alain

Thank you for that information. You are a star. The point I am trying to reach is that Leube made a mistake in identity and that he actually shot down a Lancaster Id W5000 QRB. I have seen this reported on other forums and indeed some relatives from the crew of W5000 have tried what I am doing. I do not know their results. I believe that Leube's claim for 3/8/43 was his first and he was a 19 year old rooky. Some of his other later claims have only been for a 4 engined bomber with no id. It seems that his claim for a Stirling may be wrong as all Stirlings missing on that night have been accounted for. I don't suppose there is anyway that I can prove this but it would be very helpful to know that the Lancaster W5000 was indeed shot down by a night fighter on its return to base and that it is a strong possibility. Do you have any opinion on this topic or does anybody else. Thanks Tony

[Rob Romero]

Misidentification of enemy aircraft types was quite common and some of the mistakes are difficult to fathom (an A6M2 Zero mistaken for a Bf 109 for instance); mistaking a Lanc for a Stirling at NIGHT is completely understanable especially if the conditions were far from perfect and one had to contend with return fire from the rear turret.

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Tony

According to The Nachtjagd War Dairies by Boiten and McKenzie the identity of the Stirling that Leube claimed on the night of 2/3 August 1943 is listed as being possibly Lancaster III (W5000) "QR-B" of 61 Sqn, RAF flown by F/O R Lyon. Four Stirling four-engined bombers were claimed by German pilots that night and the victims of two of these are identified as such while the Stirling claimed by Hauptmann Hans-Joachim Jabs is identified as being Lancaster I (W4778) "KM-T" of 44 Sqn, RAF flown by F/Sgt AR Moffatt and that claimed by Leube is as above. I hope this helps you somewhat.

Horrido!

Leo

[udf_00]

Another possibility :
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...-Hodges/page2&
Posts 16 & 17

[Tony Clifford]

Hello all. Having carried out extensive research on the topic of Leube and his claim, he did not shoot down Lancaster W5000. I am now in a position to say beyond reasonable doubt, that the wreckage of Lancaster III W5000 has been found. It lies buried in meadows to the SW of Hamburg and as far as I can tell the crew remain with it. It would seem that the a/c exploded on impact and wreckage has been found over a wide area. Some of the pieces include a broken crankshaft with pistons and liners and markings suggesting it was a Packard Merlin. Also, a machine gun in excellent condition has been found. The exact location will not be disclosed. Tony

[Tony Clifford]

Hi Rob

Thanks for that. That is what I wanted somebody to say. We, the family, have wondered for 70 years what happened. I think now, that I have a very good idea of the events. Of course we can never be sure but this brings some solace
regards
Tony Clifford