Informations about Bf 109 E WNr.1259 ?

[ouidjat]

1299!!

ah ah ah ah!...

OK! 4.(H)/12 or 2.(H)/14 ???

[ouidjat]

Hi Guys,

By the way, there is another one!
enjoy it.

Regards, Franck.

PS: Sorry David, 4.(H)/12! In 1942, June, 2.(H)/14 was in Germany.

[Stig Jarlevik]

So Wnr 1299 it is....
Fits a lot better!

Cheers
Stig

[ouidjat]

Hi Stig,

Just for the moment...

I'm surprised 2.(H)/14 and 4.(H)/12 had same kind of markings, especially with Bf 109 Es.
Any comments about that situation?

However if we consider Michael Holm correct (How much correct?) both units didn't cross in North Africa except from 11/1942 in Tunisia.

....

Cheers, Franck.

[Falcon]

Originally Posted by Merlin

The correct Werknummer of this Bf 109E-7trop is 1299, it was lost as black “11” by 4.(H)/12 on 6.Jun.42 when Lt. Fritz Hülle (POW) made a forced landing after being damaged by AA near Acroma.

Is your pilot name "Hülle" sure?

I got answer from Harald Vogt, he tell me:
"W.Nr. 1299: E-3 am 03.09.41 Reparatur und Umbau zur E-7 in Erding. 06.06.42 als E-7 bei der 4.(H)/12 verloren gegangen und zu 100% abgeschrieben, Lt Fritz Müller wurde verwundet."

Possible also a reading error like the WNr. :-)

@Franck, thanks for the next picture of that plane! It's always bad with that damn low resolution... :-(

[ouidjat]

Y're welcome David.

The KRACKER list gives Hülle without detail about the Bf 109 E. Day's loss is the same.
Nothing about a Frizt Müller in 4.(H)/12, but means nothing except it's not in the list!!

[Matti Salonen]

According to NVM Fritz Hülle is correct.

Matti

[RolandF]

I wouldn´t give a lot on the correct writing of a name even in those official lists.
A bad carbon copy of a typed Verlustmeldung (3rd copy or more ) may let you read a "M" instead of an "H". And reading "Mülle" may let the reader think of the most common German name "Müller" with an obviously forgotten letter.
Frequently occurring mistakes especially when you´re working with names in a foreign language...

Regards

Roland

[Matti Salonen]

Right Roland. If you are looking at the GQM Verlustmeldung dated 16.6.1942, item 102, you can quite easily read the name as Müller. Also, in Berichtigungen on page 1 of Verlustmeldung dated 7.7.1942 the first letter of the name is blurred, although the end is clearly ...lle.

Matti

[Jim P.]

Has to that unit. 4.(H)/12 also had 109Es in Africa, but carried white codes.

Bf 109E-7, , n.n., , , 2.(H), 14, , , , , 21-Mar-42, Bruchlandung due to technical failure., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #5)-Vol.8, , nicht gemeldet, 30%, F, , ,
Bf 109E, 1259, n.n., , , 2.(H), 14, schwarze, + 11, GK+EK, , , Port side overall photo'd in North Africa (said El Alamein, Egypt) following tropicalization and photo reconnaissance conversion (said a Bf109E-9). Three figures working underneath at camera port., Possibly WNr. 1269., Afrika, www.messerschmitt-bf109.de,“Bf 109E-9”, Photo No. 4061 (Privat), , , -, F, , , Erla Werke
Bf 109E-7/trop, 1404, n.n., , , 2.(H), 14, , , , , 06-Feb-42, Technical failure., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #6)-Vol.9, , Arco Philaenorum, 50%, H, , ,
Bf 109E, 1579, ./., , , 2.(H), 14, , , , , 16-Dec-41, Destroyed by own forces due to shift in front., , Gen.d.Lw.b.Ob.d.H./Eins.Mittelmeer-Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #4)-Vol.7, , Martuba, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 1955, n.n., , , 2.(H), 14, , , , , 13-Mar-42, Bruchlandung due to pilot error., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #5)-Vol.8, , Fl.Pl. Martuba, 70%, H, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 2011, n.n., , , 2.(H), 14, , , , , 14-Nov-42, Crashed while taxiing., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12, , Trapani, 65%, H, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 3589, ./., , , 2.(H), 14, , , , , 19-Mar-42, Bombenwurf., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #5)-Vol.8, , Fl.Pl. Martuba, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 4158, n.n., , , 2.(H), 14, , , BI+WE, , 14-Nov-42, Crashed while taxiing. Found by Brits on 13-Jul-43. Battle damaged., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1839, Menke, Trapani-Platz Milo, 65%, H, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 5278, Schöndarth, Ofw. Henry, , , 2.(H), 14, , , , , 14-Mar-42, MIA due to enemy fighters., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #5)-Vol.8, , (Tobruk), 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109F, 5445, Metz, Ltn. Wilhelm, , , 2.(H), 14, schwarzes, 5 +, , , 01-Mar-43, Reported lost due to enemy fighter. F returned., , Lfl.2/Tunisien, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #9)-Vol.15; Prien/Rodeike, Bf 109F, G & K, p.23 photo, , bei Gaffour (Gfour el Aroussa), 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109E, 6053, ./., , , 2.(H), 14, , , , , 20-Dec-41, Destroyed by own forces due to shift in front., , Gen.d.Lw.b.Ob.d.H./Eins.Mittelmeer-Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #4)-Vol.7, , Benina, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 6109, n.n., , , 2.(H), 14, , , , , 22-Feb-42, Crashed due to enemy fire., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #5)-Vol.8, , bei El Mechilli, 100%, F, , ,