JG51 Escort 24th August 1940 08:30 to 10:00

[Frank Olynyk]

Ross,
Hamlyn's combat report for Aug 24 is in Air 50/172-153&154. It is on the microfilm at least, if no longer available as hard copy. Glad I had the 300 and 600 series squadron CRs microfilmed before the thief got at them.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Bertrand H]

Frank,

On the same day, in the morning, Sgt A. Glowacki (151 sqdn) claimed Bf109 destroyed NW Dover. Is there a combat report filed in Kew ?

TIA

Bertrand

[rafcommands]

Hi Frank,

Just downloaded the pieces from the TNA

AIR50/172/153 is a report from 22/06/1943 from F/O Wood and Sgt Fallon
AIR50/172/154 is the same report.

Looking at the pdf file reference headers they seem to be AIR 50-172-0-138 and 139.

I'll get onto the TNA but in the mean time any chance of a copy or transcript from your source?

Regards
Ross

[Peter Cornwell]

Ross,

In this context, you can ignore the III./KG51 reference quoted in BoBT&N. With the benefit of further research over the intervening 30-odd years since its original publication that particular loss is now more accurately documented as follows:

7./KG51 Junkers Ju88A-1 (7072). Badly damaged by fighters during sortie to Portsmouth and crashed in the Channel 10 km north of Le Havre. BS Gefr Robert Pfaff killed, BO Uffz Johannes Schulze and FF Uffz Karl Maurer both missing, Bordfunker believed rescued unhurt. Aircraft 9K+BR 100% write-off.
The body of Robert Pfaff was later recovered by the Seenotdienst off Le Havre.

The claims filed by ‘DOGROSE Yellow 2’ Sgt HAMLYN of No.610 Squadron (DW*Q R6891) following that sortie are as you describe, also that by ‘HYDRO Yellow 1’ Sgt ALLARD of No.85 Squadron (VY*K). Allocating specific losses to these claims is the usual fraught business but it begins to look to me as if the Ju88 encountered by HAMLYN may well have been a singleton and as mentioned in my earlier thread, thus:

5.(F)/122 Junkers Ju88. Believed shot down by fighters during reconnaissance sortie to Canterbury and crashed in the Channel off Boulogne. FF Lt Meinulf Hellermann killed, BO Lt Karl Hurck, BF Uffz Franz Schmidtler, and BM Uffz Erich Kromer all missing. Aircraft 100% write-off.

Furthermore, 9./JG51 did lose one 109 that day which may or may not be relevant:

9./JG51 Messerschmitt Bf109E-1. Shot down in combat with fighters over the Channel. FF Uffz Theodor Kröll killed. Aircraft 100% write-off.

[Nick Beale]

I don't know if this Ultra (CX/JQ/247) is of any help. Please excuse the composite image, a product of uneven lighting and the paragraph running over two pages.

[Chris Goss]

Nick: Not wishing to go off at a tangent and noticing the mention of Brize Norton, does ULTRA say anything about Ju 88/He 111 attacks on 16 Aug 40 again Brize and Benson?
Ross: The fate of the Ju 88 of KG 51 is mentioned in Brothers in Arms

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

... does ULTRA say anything about Ju 88/He 111 attacks on 16 Aug 40 again Brize and Benson?

The only thing I can see that might be relevant is this (CX/JQ/227, T9, paragraph 14):

On 16/8 JG 2 and ZG 2 are to make their fourth attack (2nd day), probable zero hour being 0830 hours. At 1500 hours attack "LUDWIG" is expected to be made, probably by KG 54, JG 2 and possibly ZG 2. Definitive decision still to be communicated. 4 (F) 121 will make weather reconnaissance.