Need info on what this signals? unit did? 7./Lg.Nachr.Rgt.12

[SES]

Hi
I have now info on this particular event, only the following general description.
At the outbreak of WW II Germany had set up a chain of seven radar sites equipped with the early version of the Freya (125 Mhz, 120 km range). It was operated partly by the Luftwaffe and partly by the Kriegsmarine. It gave complete radar coverage at Germany's western border at medium altitude from the French/German to the Danish/German border.
The procedures for day fighter employment was very makeshift, but a number of spectacular results were actually achieved in the first few month of the war. This can partly be attributed to the British lack of knowledge of existence of German radars. Please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/german_day_fighter_control.htm
and
http://www.gyges.dk/Himmelbett.htm
Hope this adds a little.
bregds
SES

[Horst Weber]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

Larry,

If this was one of the first successful radar intercepts, this event may be hugely significant in the history of WWII. The Fairey Battle formation was wiped out by the fighters reportedly scrambled as a result of their detection by this unit. The British formation was on a high-altitude photographic recon of the Saarbrücken-Merzig area. Is this consistent with the position of the radar site as you indicated? Would this have been one of the first successful radar interceptions of the war? I hope that SES does see this and add what he knows about this radar site, and whether a German report still exists of the radar detection of this formation and the following air battle.

Can anyone provide a photo of this or a similar radar site from this period for the EoE Project account of this mission? We are now in a position to reconstruct what happened in great detail in the air.

Regards,

Larry

Larry !

In the very helpful French booklet series BATAILLES AERIENNES, Vol. 3 (NOV/DEC 1997 & JAN 1998) appears a little article about the theme, titled: LES RADARS ALLEMANDS EN 1939. It is on page 49 of the issue. With the help of my son and google, we managed to translate the little article.

It tells, that the protection of the franco-german border was started by the erection of 2 FREYA devices at the end of September 1939 at a hill near Helenenberg near Trier. After this, at mid December 1939, an additional device could be connected from the hill "Grosser Hausberg", East of Landstuhl/Pfalz. The complete network (in LGK 12 !!!!) became operational in Junuary 1940, when the station Kandel, with view to the Black Forest, became operational and connected.

Those reports indicate, that the sources are coming from units of Luftgaukommando 12 in 1939/40. All locations in the area are of a responsibility of LGK 12.

It's indeed very thrilling now, if this interception on September 30th, 1939 was a result of one of the first radar detection or caused other reasons. On my opinion, only researches at BM-BA at Freiburg can clear the question without doubts.

Best wishes !

Horst Weber

[Larry Hickey]

SES & Horst,

Thanx for your helpful comments. The French article was particularly helpful, especially in light of the info from Larry de Zeng. I'm thinking that this all adds up to a very important historical event, probably the first major successful German radar-guided interception of the war, and thus in the history of radar in general. This is something that I never suspected when I started researching this combat.

Does anyone have any photos of this early radar site, or one like it, to see what the equipment looked like?

Now if we can only find some photos of the wrecked Fairey Battles from this incident, or other photos of 150 SQ a/c from 09.39, so that I can do a profile of one of the British a/c involved. Peter Cornwell has suggested the general appearance of this a/c, but notes that this info is still highly speculative: "Lack of consistency in the application of markings on Battles of the period make it dangerous to speculate but probably no fin flash & serial repeated on the rudder etc. Also possibly all black undersurfaces with large white serials on each wing."

Thanx again for the help!!

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[SES]

For description of Freya please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/luftwaffe_radartypes.htm
and
http://www.gyges.dk/luftwaffe_radart...ecognition.htm
the early Freyas were very similar to the FuMG 450.
I have never seen a picture of these early sites only the equipment.
bregds
SES

[hanshauprich]

About same 25 years ago I was able to talk with an former member with 7. Kompanie Luftgau-Nachrichten-Rgt. 12. They work together with the FLUKO Trier (my hometown). The FLUKO sent the information about incoming emeny Airplanes via telephone to the LGK Wiesbaden & to the Jagdgeschwader 53.
The FLUKO was in the cellars from Friedrich-Wilhelm-Gymnasium.
h.

[SES]

Hi,
Thank you for the info, which is consistent with that in the link I posted above.
bregds
SES

[Larry Hickey]

Hans and SES,

This is very helpful information in reconstructing the mission that day. Thanx to both of you. This establishes the command chain for passing the radar info forward to the fighter unit which was scrambled and intercepted the incoming British formation.

What does the abbreviation FLUKO mean?

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[Larry deZeng]

Fluko(s) and Fluwa(s)

Fluko = Flugwachkommando = observer post detachment
Fluwa = Flugwache = observer post

IIRC, each Fluko subordinated a number of Flugwache. The Fluko was usually in a city, town or command and control bunker, while a Flugwache consisted of one or two people with binoculars posted on a rooftop or nearby hill to keep on the lookout for approaching aircraft. The Flugwache generally reported by telephone while the Fluko were equipped with both telephone and radio capability.

Horst and SES might be able to fine tune these definitions with some additional information.

[Larry Hickey]

Larry,

Thanx. This system is obviously the German parallel to the British Observer Corps. The latter is well known from its roll in the Battle of Britain, but the German system is less well known, at least to me.

Exactly how this system worked and the roll it played on Sept 30, 1939, is now becoming much clearer to me, thanks to the information all of you have provided on this subject.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Director