Photos 10-3 + - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

edwest · #1 3rd October 2013, 17:43

ouidjat · #2 3rd October 2013, 18:27

Thanks Ed,

http://www.ebay.de/itm/146-Foto-deut...-/370910333402?
Ju 188E-2, n°3 Unit 10.S (future 10.S-12) taken at Le Luc, 1946/1947.

First flight 26-Feb-1946.
Reception 9-Oct-1946 to 25-Oct-1946
Escadrille 10.S (10.S-12) 28-Oct-1946
F-YVJG in 1947.
Maintenance from 11/1948 to 04/1949 (No spare Engine)
Unavailable End 1950.
Proposed to reform on 06-Aug-1951 (1412/AERO/M)
Reformed 23-Oct-1951 at St. Raphael (1034/SEC)

Equiped in order to receive both FX 1400 and Hs 293.

Regards, Franck.

edNorth · #3 3rd October 2013, 23:04

Hi Franck

Please do not call this "Ju 188 E-2", as in service it was the AAB-1 ( but based on Ju 188 E-1 / F-1 version, BMW 801 engines, and thus in all probability were just Ju 188 E-1´s despite used by the Aeronavale). They were configured for FX 1400 and HS 293 bombs/missles by the French.

Clarifying: the Ju 188 E-2 was planned as Torp (Torpedo Bomber) version, but I have not seen any (photo) proof the French Ju 188 E´s were configured to carry torpedoes (like the Ju 188 A-3 with Torp equipment). My french is poor but I can not find any evidence in the book you quote from. Possibly there exists a document somewhere in old Frence files, but these are not indentified by their W.Nr´s, so one does not know for shure.

BTW, I also see the info comes from Pierre Dumollard "Junkers 88 et 188 Francais", Page 168 (right?), but it does say I agree with him on "E-2" version (which I think is error). This book has more errors, the photo text on top of page 18 says "Un Ju 88 abandonné par ..." actually shows a Heinkel He 177 "Greif" wreck. It is such mistakes that make one wonder, is the research behind such as exact.

- (the other) ed

Jim P. · #4 4th October 2013, 00:03

Many thanks for this Ed. Good to see you back again. The vagaries of what is available on e-Bay at any time aside, the variety of this particular group of offerings is amazing. There's something for almost every particular area of interest.

Tony Kambic · #5 4th October 2013, 00:07

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=370909553514

Please can anyone name the Knight's Cross winners in the photograph about halfway down in the album?

edwest · #6 4th October 2013, 02:10

You're welcome, everyone. Due to an increased workload these past few months, I've only been able to post on occasion. But the quest for more treasure will continue.

Best,
Ed

G.R.Morrison · #7 4th October 2013, 06:14

Mr. Kambic,

The Ritterkreuzträger are Erwin-Peter Diekwisch, Martin Möbus and Otto Schmidt. I/St.G. 5, Summer 1943.

GRM

ouidjat · #8 4th October 2013, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by edNorth

Hi Franck

Quote:

Originally Posted by edNorth

Please do not call this "Ju 188 E-2", as in service it was the AAB-1 ( but based on Ju 188 E-1 / F-1 version, BMW 801 engines, and thus in all probability were just Ju 188 E-1´s despite used by the Aeronavale). They were configured for FX 1400 and HS 293 bombs/missles by the French.

Clarifying: the Ju 188 E-2 was planned as Torp (Torpedo Bomber) version, but I have not seen any (photo) proof the French Ju 188 E´s were configured to carry torpedoes (like the Ju 188 A-3 with Torp equipment). My french is poor but I can not find any evidence in the book you quote from. Possibly there exists a document somewhere in old Frence files, but these are not indentified by their W.Nr´s, so one does not know for shure.

BTW, I also see the info comes from Pierre Dumollard "Junkers 88 et 188 Francais", Page 168 (right?), but it does say I agree with him on "E-2" version (which I think is error). This book has more errors, the photo text on top of page 18 says "Un Ju 88 abandonné par ..." actually shows a Heinkel He 177 "Greif" wreck. It is such mistakes that make one wonder, is the research behind such as exact.

- (the other) ed

Hello Ed (2nd )

- Ju 88 were AAB.1 not Ju 188. (See same book P.24)
As for Ju 188, I cannot say if they received any SNCASE production code/name. (I expected AAB.2 if ever)

- E-2 or E-1?
Why not? In all book they are just described as Ju 188 except in the last table where they are called Ju 188 E-2.
I wonder why in all book the author take care of calling the first machines as Ju 88, then when produced/rebuilt by SNCASE, as AAB and or AAB.1 (P.24), and nothing else than Ju 188 for the Ju 188s.
So, I think there was no AAB for those machines. It's possible, I don't know.
More, considering the way they got them, rebuild them from spare parts, I think it's difficult to call them Ju 188 E-1 or E-2, so far.

- He 177: You're right.
Just because of that error can we consider it’s enough to throw this book in the bin? If so we can do it for all past and present publications, can’t we?
By the contrary, I think there is more than enough sources provided in this work, quoted help too, and it seems to me quite well documented and acceptable.

- Last, I didn’t talk about torpedoes, just FX1400 (Photos P.71 and P.73) and Hs 293 (P.76); French Navy didn’t consider them as Torpedoes but as “Flying guided missiles”.

Last, since I only have this book, I cannot say more (Though I remember “Le Fanatique de l’ Aviation” did publish an article about those machines.)

So, Dear Ed, thanks anyway for your comments and help about this. I just did put few available details concerning that eBay picture.

I think, however, that you’re right some details deserved to be clear up.

Regards, Franck.

Peter Achs · #9 4th October 2013, 13:27

Hi ednorth,

please take a look in the manual of the Ju 188 (Part 0). There you will find a description of the subtype Ju 188 E-2. This was not a torpedo plane. There was a similar recce subtype Ju 188 F-2.

Your confusion probably comes from the fact that even a tropical version (abbr. "tp") of the Ju 188 E-2 was planned.

Regards
Peter

RT · #10 4th October 2013, 13:34

please take a look in the manual of the Ju 188 (Part 0). There you will find a description of the subtype Ju 188 E-2. This was not a torpedo plane. There was a similar recce subtype Ju 188 F-2.

Your confusion probably comes from the fact that even a tropical version (abbr. "tp") of the Ju 188 E-2 was planned.

Regards
Peter

The great return, any news from your book ??/Books ??

Rémi

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