JG 54 near Leningrad in August, 1942

[Jim P.]

>But there is also photos on planes of a Rotte from 7./JG 54 at Utti a/f on 23 June 42, one of the planes is that of 7th Staffel leader Oblt. Friedrich Rupp.<

Obviously we'll most likely get a definitive answer in a few months, but until then I still think Werner vom Hofe was the Kap. of 7./JG 54 in June 42, though I think he left for Staff jobs around that time - and he and Rupp had the same number of vics, at least that's what the claims listings say

[Juha]

Hello Andrey
I’m afraid that I cannot help more for time being. Just after the war written history of LeR 3 mentioned the German detachment and said that LLv 26 had rather much co-operation with that det. But we both knew that already and LLv 26 happened to be one of the sqns of FAF on which I know very little on.

The Rotte at Utti: Probably too late for the Hitler’s visit which happened 19 days earlier.

And thanks for the info on the archives of IAPs.

Best Regards
Juha

Jim P. Thanks for the clarification

Juha

[Nikita Egorov]

[quote=Juha][And thanks for the info on the archives of IAPs.[/font][/size]
][/size][/QUOTE

Dear Juha,

Unfortunatelly, everything is not so optimistic as it was on the Andrey's reply. Major piece of information was lost especially it deals with activities in 1941-1942. As regards to VVS units some of them are helplessly in informational gap due to absence of direct documents on the regimental and higher levels.

BR,
Nikita

[Juha]

Hello Nikita
thanks for the clarification. I understood from Andrey’s message that there are units from which it is very difficult to get info. It is sad to hear that there are units from which it is very difficult/partly impossible to get info. It is sad partly because it makes it more difficult to research the actions of the Axis side but much more importantly because it makes the research of VVS more difficult. Even if the main purpose of historical research is to form an analytical picture on the past, gaps in the facts make analysis more difficult or even faulty. And it is also sad if deeds of some units become forgotten. As we Finns sometimes say, everybody is worth of a song.

Best regards
Juha

[Nikita Egorov]

Yes, Juha, you are right. In the case with VVS one major problem always comes up. The organisational structure was fixed more or less only in 1943. Before this we face abolute mess of regiments, divisions, VVS of armies, groups and etc. Taking into consideration the fact that 1942 was not successful for Soviet army many documents were lost in retreats and incirclements.
Another case is when one unit emerged from another (this was common practise). E.g. 263 BAD was primarily formed as 263 IAD in summer 1942 comprising of 812 IAP, 813 IAP, 814 IAP. Documents of 263 BAD begin only from converting into bomber division and the period with fighters is lost in details at least regarding 813 IAP and 814 IAP, which funds in TsAMO are empty. Only history of 812 IAP (thanks to Vlad Antipov and Igor Utkin) can shed some light on the activities of this division through the short period in summer 1942.
Such situation can be frequently met in Russian archives.

Originally Posted by Juha

Hello Nikita
thanks for the clarification. I understood from Andrey’s message that there are units from which it is very difficult to get info. It is sad to hear that there are units from which it is very difficult/partly impossible to get info. It is sad partly because it makes it more difficult to research the actions of the Axis side but much more importantly because it makes the research of VVS more difficult. Even if the main purpose of historical research is to form an analytical picture on the past, gaps in the facts make analysis more difficult or even faulty. And it is also sad if deeds of some units become forgotten. As we Finns sometimes say, everybody is worth of a song.

Best regards
Juha

[Jochen Prien]

Dear Andrey Dikov,

thanks for your kind comments. Our claims lists are based on the original sources - as far as available to us - and made up from them; we do not lean on Tony Wood's lists and we have so far made no synopsis to find out which one of ours may be in his lists and which not. Therefore I cannot answer your questions. I can only and strongly recommend that you refrain from working with the old claims lists altogether until the publication of the current list in JFV Vol 9 / III.

As far as the claims lists of JG 77 are concerned they on the basis of the recent findings needed a complete work over as compared with the old lists of the JG 77 unit history. This of course also applies to the part of the operations around Leningrad that you are interested in. When the unit history was written some 15 years ago much of the data now availabe had yet to be unearthed, hence the many claims marked as "*", meaning that they were provisionally only, lacking documentary proof. A very similar situation exists around the old claims list of JG 53 in the East in Vol. 2 and 3 of the JG 53 history.

Hope this helps.

Jochen Prien

[Juha]

Hello Andrey
I checked the SPK (KTB) of LeLv 26 from 1.8. to 31.10.42 from microfilm F39/120. There was no answer to your question. LW (other than the Siebel ferry detachment) was mentioned only twice.

On 1.8. “German pilotofficers/officers with flying status visited the base. Visitors’ base is Petäjärvi.”

19?.11. I’m not sure on date, but in Nov. 42. I was running out of time when I noticed this entry. But anyway, Col.Gen. Keller had sent a letter-of-thanks in which he thanked LeLv 26 for the good co-operation with the German pilots that had operated from Petäjärvi.

So no mention on from which unit German pilots were.

A quick look on archive index cards indicated that for later half of 42 of the lentue SPKs (Staffel KTBs) only that of 1./LeLv 26 have survived. In it (microfilm F 124/911) there was nothing on Germans, again except on the Siebel ferry det., up to 19.9.42. I had not time to read it further. 1. Staffel operated from the Carelia Isthmus as did the 3rd. 2. Staffel operated from Malmi at that time.

There is much more documents in the archive of LeLv 26 but I don’t have now time to go through them. And the answer might also be in the archive of LeR 3 or in that of IlmavE. I have understood that Kari has promised to help you later on so this is all this time. But if you like to have some details on the actions of LeLv 26 or 1./LeLv 26, I’ll gladly check them from SPKs.

Regards
Juha