unknown Staffelabzeichen from Geschwader "Horst Wessel"

[Falcon]

Hello,

a known photo from the ZG 26 and possible 3. Staffel is this:
http://www.me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=1925
It is the "yellow 12".

Today I got photos from a member of the Geschwader "Horst Wessel" and it show the "yellow 11" with the same sign:
http://www.me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=7921

Are more photos known with that sign? I have attached a close-up from the sign. There is a crosshair and a bird with long legs and small wings visible...

Any ideas?

Regards,
David

[Clint Mitchell]

The bird is taken from one of the original illustration plates of the German children's story "Hans Huckebein, der Unglücksrabe" by Wilhelm Busch (1832-1908).

Attachment 9536

Obviously with the addition of an MG ringsight it is known as the early emblem of 3./ZG26 also seen on their Bf110s.

[Chris Goss]

I am fairly sure that this is a well-known abzeichen?

[Falcon]

Thanks Clint!!

I have checked Priens JFV Teil 2, there is on page 558 this sign with the drunken raven. But without the crosshair. But on the photos on page 553 and 555 is it also poor visible...
Looks like the drawing needs a correction. ;-)

I have only looked into JFV Teil 1 before, because the photos where taken before the 01.09.1939... 8-)

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Falcon

Thanks Clint!!

I have checked Priens JFV Teil 2, there is on page 558 this sign with the drunken raven. But without the crosshair. But on the photos on page 553 and 555 is it also poor visible...
Looks like the drawing needs a correction. ;-)

I have only looked into JFV Teil 1 before, because the photos where taken before the 01.09.1939... 8-)

Thanks for the pointer David,

and for the blow up.
Looking at Prien's there is no doubt that this emblem was, better, a "bad known" emblem and, I agree with you, it needs to be corrected.

Off topic but still in your Kaufmann collection:
That picture:
http://www.me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=7917

Vrba yes but in 1941, not 1940. Let say Mars- April 1941 and after when II./JG 27 was in operation down there ...
We are Lucky the attached photo of the same plane was offered in auction a couple of weeks ago.
We can see:
- II. Gruppe bar
- II./JG 27 emblem on the cowling on ground just Under the fuselage cross.
- Last, the spinner cap.
Since we are in 1941 it's most probably an E-7. 6./JG 27, Vrba 1941.
Done!

Tschüss, Franck.

[Falcon]

Great find, Franck! Full ack!
Prien gives three loss of Bf 109 E-7 (WNr. 4045, 1111, 5216) from the II./JG 27 at Vrba on the 06.04.1941 in JFV Teil 5. 2x 50% and 1x 60% damage during take off failure. I think this matches for the both planes...

[ouidjat]

Hello,

You're welcome David ...
I don't have the JFV Teil V! A scan will be welcomed as XMAS gift!
Just a little thing: I wrote "after" i.e. at the time the photo has been taken, of course.

Thanks for the losses. At least this does confirm the "E-7" variant and the Vrba location.

Tschöö, Franck.

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Falcon

... Full ack!
...

Nervous break-down David??

[Marc BENOIT]

hello,

The same emblem appears in Ries: Luftwaffe embleme, photo collection, p 149.
The picture shows Bf 109 D yellow 9 with the " besoffene Rabe" ans crossair

BR
Marc

[Falcon]

Originally Posted by Marc BENOIT

hello,

The same emblem appears in Ries: Luftwaffe embleme, photo collection, p 149.
The picture shows Bf 109 D yellow 9 with the " besoffene Rabe" ans crossair

BR
Marc

Thanks Marc,
I think the same photo of the "yellow 9" is in the Prien book JFV Teil 2 page 555 with credit "Ries". The crosshair is poor visible...
Got Ries in his book also a drawing from that raven? And if yes, with or without the crosshair?