The Eagles Over Europe Project

[SES]

Hi Juha,
Thanks for the clarification.
bregds
SES

[Marius]

Hello,
many thanks to SES for the last pdf file. As I see the big German overclaiming is clear done.
It makes me believe 10.(N)/JG 26 shot exactly at the same aircraft as II./JG 77. This would explain the lack of confirmation for most victories of Steinhoff`s Staffel.
Can somebody help with personal accounts (or postwar memories) of Johannes Steinhoff, Willi Szuggar, Werner Gerhardt, Martin Portz or August Wilke?

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Marius,

I have accounts from several German pilots involved, but none of these.

Regards,

[Marius]

Hello, no problem Larry.
I mean Steinhoff wrote a lot of things after the war. Was there nothing about the 18.12.1939 ???

Regards,

[Marius]

Hello, I analized the Luftgau XI copies a little bit and it seems the aerial victories of 10.(N)/JG 26 have another hours than given in T.Woods or JFV Vol.II.
The question is where the partially incorrect times (14.30,14.30,14.35,14.35,14.35) are coming from ??? Maybe from Heinrich Weiss` manuscript - but isn`t it just an authors speculation ???

According to Luftgau XI it could be the following hours for Steinhoff`s Staffel: 14.30,14.35,14.35,14.40,14.40.
There remains the question what exactly in T.Woods & Prien/Bock lists is documented and what is just a speculation.

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Marius,

I fail to see how five minute differences in some of these times makes a material difference in the analysis of the German over-claims on 18.12.39. There could easily be some recording or transcribing errors from one source to another, but it doesn't effect the overall issue of German over-claims during the air battle. Possible transcription errors from one source to another with differences of five minutes don't bring us any closer to understanding what happened from the German point of view. The claims were still made within a very short time-span, whichever source you want to use for the information. This hardly indicates just author's "speculation."

Regards,

[Marius]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

Possible transcription errors from one source to another with differences of five minutes don't bring us any closer to understanding what happened from the German point of view. "

I am very surprised again about such "easy made" statements. How can you know that? I cannot say the differences are going into 5 minutes for sure. Maybe it is much more. Luftgau XI lists mention another hours which could come from 10.(N)/JG 26 also (for example 14.50 - possible difference of 20 minutes!). It is a fact the published sources like JFV do not differe between documented and author`s speculation data. The reader cannot work with it "seriously".
[I mean this problem came out some months ago already as I asked for the victories of JGr.152 for September 1939.]

Maybe 30 victories were claimed against the "northern formation" of Wellingtons and 6 against the "southern formation". There exists a possibility the hardly documented data could help to find out who attacked who and which unit made the overclaiming and which unit did not.

Just a few puzzle parts, but eventually very important for the German point of view.

Regards,