Loss of 1./JG 77 on 18 September 1941

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello

Thanks Norbert for this confirmation. I wonder what is in the NVM, and I hope Matti will eventually reply.

Stig, I have no problem opening the file provided by Norbert (using Firefox).

[Andreas Brekken]

Hello,

having worked with the loss lists for years I do not find this strange at all. There are a multitude of loss records filed months or even years after the incident.

Clerical error or oversight - whatever reason.

Attached is a scan of the loss record as it appear in the standard GenQu listing of August 29 1942.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Andreas Brekken]

PS!

The reason for it being filed under Luftflotte 4 is as far as I can see that the unit was subordinated to this air fleet at the time of reporting.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, all

At August 20th 1942, Stab JG 77 was reported as subordinated to Luftflotte 4, I. Gruppe under M.u.A. (Mittelmeer und Afrika), II. Luftwaffenkommando Ost and III. Gruppe Luftflotte 4.

On the next reporting date, August 31st 1942, the Stab JG 77 was subordinated to the Luftwaffenkommando Ost, I. Gruppe still M.u.A., II. and III. Gruppe both Luftwaffenkommando Ost.

It is no mystery to me then, as the loss records should go from Staffel through Gruppe, then to Geschwader and Luftflotte. I believe thus that this old loss simply went up the reporting ladder and ended up in Luftflotte 4 HQ before being transferred for registration to the RLM in Berlin, and filed under Luftflotte 4.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Stig Jarlevik]

I follow you Andreas

However the mystery to me is why it took almost a year for the incident to be reported up the ladder.....

Cheers
Stig

[markjsheppard]

This is interesting.

I have three claims for the 17th September by 81Sqn, 151 Wing. Two were definite 'hit the ground' claims but only one loss is listed.

The next combat was on 17th September when eight Hurricanes of 81 Squadron were on defensive patrol at 1830pm escorting some Russian bombers back from there target. Whilst over Balucha, NW of Murmansk the escort was bounced by two Bf109E's. At 1855pm S/Leader A. Rook in BD792 opened fire as a Bf109E passed ahead and glycol poured from it. Chasing it for five minutes S/Leader Rook ran out of bullets, Sgt P Sims in Z5228 and Sgt A Anson in Z5207 gave chase and eventually the enemy's aircraft engine caught fire and the Bf109 crashed besides a lake.
Meanwhile the second Bf109E was being chased by F/Sgt C Haw in Z5208 as it passed ahead. Gradually F/Sgt Haw was having an effect with smoke started pouring out from the engine and on the last attack a large piece flew off and the Bf109 went into a vertical dive. The pilot baled out and was reportedly captured.
A little later at 19.15 six more Bf109E's dived on the Russian bombers and escorts and P/O B Bush in Z4017 turned port and gave chase to the outside Bf109E. A dog fight ensued and P/O Bush was able to out turn the enemy aircraft and open fire. Thick black smoke poured from the aircraft and it crashed into a hill. The Russian bombers and Hurricanes returned safely and three Bf109E's were confirmed as destroyed.

Three claims, two seem hitting the ground. The bail out could have been a cowling or aircraft part but two were seen to hit the ground. 81Sqn were flying operations against 14/JG77 and 1./JG77. Could the date be a day late reporting?

regards

Mark

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Thanks to all who replied this thread. Especially for the Finnish langage course