Ofw Artur Buchert

[Chris Goss]

Does anyone know anything about this SNCO, a Bordfunker in a Kampfgeschwader who was awarded the Ehrenpokal in May 42?

[Matti Salonen]

1944-09-05, 2.(F)/123, Ju 88D-1, WNr. 430231, 4U+KK, Alexandria, Unbekannt, Bruch 100 %.
FF Helmut Weixelbaum
BO Lt Horst Wolfahrth
BF Ofw Arthur Buchert
BS Fhj-Fw Karl Ottohal
All KIA

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by Matti Salonen

1944-09-05, 2.(F)/123, Ju 88D-1, WNr. 430231, 4U+KK, Alexandria, Unbekannt, Bruch 100 %.
FF Helmut Weixelbaum
BO Lt Horst Wolfahrth
BF Ofw Arthur Buchert
BS Fhj-Fw Karl Ottohal
All KIA

Matti: are you sure about this? The GQM lists this aircraft as:

Ju 88D-5, 430231, Burian, Ltn. Hans-Werner (B)/Hess, Ofw. Kurt (F), 4.(F)121, wei§ W, 7A+WM, 23-Aug-43, MIA with crew, cause unknown., Ostfront, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.20, (Pl.Qu. 8474), 100%, F

[Chris Goss]

Matti-This is great. Would that be 5 Sep 44 or 9 May 44? I have his Ehrenpokal

[Matti Salonen]

Cannot be sure, because there are two losses for the same WNr. I think, that 430231 is not correct for this September 5 loss of Ju 88D-1 (I have made in my files a note "Wrong WNr?). Based on loss statistics I believe that:
430001-430100 are Ju 88D-5
430101-430166 are Ju 88D-1
430167-430250 are Ju 88D-5
430251-430940 are Ju 88D-1.
Therefore it is more probable, that August 23, 1943 loss of Ju 88D-5 is WNr. 430231.
Otherwise the info should be OK. If not, please correct and I will make modification to my database.

Best regards,
Matti Salonen

P.S. I use in my database standard ISO date format Year-Month-Day, because this way the computer makes excellent chronological lists.

[Chris Goss]

Matti: Where did you get the loss details from as I am about to ask WASt for the NVM? It looks to be the man in question (his christian name on the Ehrenpokal is Artur by the way). Weixelbaum was the St Kap and a DKiG holder. Buchert's name is not on the War Graves site

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by Matti Salonen

Cannot be sure, because there are two losses for the same WNr. I think, that 430231 is not correct for this September 5 loss of Ju 88D-1 (I have made in my files a note "Wrong WNr?). Based on loss statistics I believe that:
430001-430100 are Ju 88D-5
430101-430166 are Ju 88D-1
430167-430250 are Ju 88D-5
430251-430940 are Ju 88D-1.
Therefore it is more probable, that August 23, 1943 loss of Ju 88D-5 is WNr. 430231.
Otherwise the info should be OK. If not, please correct and I will make modification to my database.

Matti:

Thanks for the answer but I'm still a little confused. Are you saying that the 5-Sep-1944 loss of the a/c and the Buchert crew is not WNr 430231? But the basic information is OK, you just do not have the correct WNr.? I ask because the only two Ju-88 records I have for that date were both nightfighters lost in Germany and not Alexandria. Of course there are lots of missing records for 1944..........

[Matti Salonen]

Frankly, I don't know. I have in my database over 115 000 losses and I have not written sources to the records. However, from my memory I believe that I got a hand-written list of Fernaufklärer-losses in 1944 from somebody in Germany who 20-25 years ago visited WASt and copied a lot of NVM-info. Anyway, to confirm this data you might be better to check with WASt.

Best regards
Matti Salonen

[Matti Salonen]

Sorry, if I am causing confusion. For me this is one of those hundreds of cases, where Luftwaffe documents give same WNr. in two totally separated complete losses. Without having NVM for both of them I cannot tell for sure, which is correct and which is not. I tried to say, that there is a slight possibility that 430231 is correct for Aug 23 loss and NVM would reveal actual WNr for Sept 5 loss.

Best regards,
Matti salonen

[Chris Goss]

Matti/John: According to the NVM they were in a Ju 88 T-3, Wk Nr 330231, 4U+KK. By the way, it is the man I am after-just increased the value of my Ehrenpokal considerably