Korean War Aircraft Loss Database

[edwest]

And here is mention of a post-war study I had not heard of before.


"Many years after the war, a study by the U.S. Air Force, code named Sabre Measure Charlie, downgraded the F-86 Sabre-versus-MiG-15 “kill ratio” from more than 14 to 1 to a revised figure of 7 to 1. The latter figure remains the best achievement in any fighter campaign in history prior to Operation Desert Storm."


Source: http://www.koreanwar60.com/air-force



Ed

[Kutscha]

Originally Posted by edwest

And here is mention of a post-war study I had not heard of before.


"Many years after the war, a study by the U.S. Air Force, code named Sabre Measure Charlie, downgraded the F-86 Sabre-versus-MiG-15 “kill ratio” from more than 14 to 1 to a revised figure of 7 to 1. The latter figure remains the best achievement in any fighter campaign in history prior to Operation Desert Storm."

Source: http://www.koreanwar60.com/air-force

Ed

Didn't the F6F and Finnish B-239s have a better ratio?

[NickM]

Originally Posted by Kutscha

Didn't the F6F and Finnish B-239s have a better ratio?

Fighter v Fighter, I am not so sure. The F6F had the advantage of outnumbering an inexperienced & technically outclassed force but the Sabers were not only outnumbered, (at least, early on ) but I think a MiG-15 actually had a technical advantage on the Saber (operational ceiling, I think?);

[mars]

Originally Posted by NickM

Fighter v Fighter, I am not so sure. The F6F had the advantage of outnumbering an inexperienced & technically outclassed force but the Sabers were not only outnumbered, (at least, early on ) but I think a MiG-15 actually had a technical advantage on the Saber (operational ceiling, I think?);

It is a little complicate in the case of Sabers vs Mig-15, on the one hand Sabers were outnumbered by Mig-15s, but on the hand, since Soviet Mig-15s were not allowed to operate beyond the Chinese-Korean border region, so Sabers usually hold the initiative, they can choose where to hit and when to strike

[NickM]

Originally Posted by mars

It is a little complicate in the case of Sabers vs Mig-15, on the one hand Sabers were outnumbered by Mig-15s, but on the hand, since Soviet Mig-15s were not allowed to operate beyond the Chinese-Korean border region, so Sabers usually hold the initiative, they can choose where to hit and when to strike

Well not sure how much of an advantage that gave the Sabers if the Mig force could loiter over the border several thousand feet above the Sabers and the Sabers usually had the issue of fuel as well. Did either side/both sides have ground control radar?

[mars]

Originally Posted by NickM

Well not sure how much of an advantage that gave the Sabers if the Mig force could loiter over the border several thousand feet above the Sabers and the Sabers usually had the issue of fuel as well. Did either side/both sides have ground control radar?

What the chance hundreds of Mig-15 "loiter over the border several thousand feet" everyday whether Sabers come or not? More likely, there were only a few Mig-15s on alert, others would scramble up when their radar detect US aircrafts coming. So Sabers can choose when and where to fight, if they choose not to enter Mig Alley, then there would be no fight, when they choose to enter the Mig Alley, then they could choose the position they want to hit, Mig-15s had to defend the entire border regions and the Chinese army's supply routes across China-Korea border, if they won a dog fight with Mig-15s, they could pursuit across the Chinese border, if they loss, they only need to leave the Mig Alley area, and MIg-15 would not pursuit outside border region, and if the operational Sabers became low, they can simply stay in their base safely refit and recover without risking being attacked, hence they held the initiative.

[Juha]

Originally Posted by NickM

... Did either side/both sides have ground control radar?

IMHO both had, UN forces occupied some islands off the North Korean coast and had ships with radar stationed off the North Korean coast.

Juha

[edwest2]

Here's a bit on radar.


http://www.koreanwar.org/html/bookst...okstore_id=276





Usual disclaimer,
Ed