CR 42. Tenente Vodret crash landing

[stefaan]

Hi Guys.
On 17 Oct 1942 Tenente Vodret from 391 Squadriglia was hit during a ground attack sortie, and crash landed his CR 42. Does anybody know what the markings was for this CR 42??
Will have been 391-?. What serial no??
Thx a mil
Stefaan Bouwer

[Gianandrea Bussi]

I think you are interested to the combat of the 27 (not 17) october 1942.
Tenente Piero Vodret, according to the 391 Sq. diary, didn't crash landed but, having being hit in the cooler, made a "normal" landing at El Qotaifja and came back to his unit in a makeshift way.

I think that the aircraft was probably marked with its Squadriglia number but I dont' know the individual code.

The Matricola Militare (military serial) of the CR.42 was 8921

Gianandrea

[stefaan]

Hi Gianandrea.
That means that the 391-3 on it's belly cannot be his a/c.
Thx amil for the help.
Stefaan

[Stig Jarlevik]

Gianandrea

According to the Vol 2 of A History of the Mediterranean air war, Giovanni Massimello does not read the 391 Sq diary that way.
Piero Vodret is only listed with MM8921 as claiming a P-40 over El Alamein at 15.15H that day. Obviously he doesn't consider either the pilot nor his aircraft as any loss at all.
What is your own standpoint regarding this? Was the hit in the cooler serious or is it even possible MM8921 very quickly was made serviceable again?

Stefaan

What makes you connect the CR.42 '391-3' with Vodret and the date with October 17th (your original statement)?

Cheers
Stig

PS: I just picked up Vol 2 today and the enormous effort within its pages are simply tremendous!

[Gianandrea Bussi]

I think that Vodret's aircraft is probably one of the three CR.42 quoted as "crash landed" in the text.

According to the Squadriglia diary, the aircraft didn't crash land but made a (normal) landing "fuori campo" in that place because of the hit received. I don't know whether it was recovered, even though the fiery battle fought in those days make me think that a recover was unlikely.

Best

Gianandrea

[stefaan]

Hi Stig.
I am not at my house where the gen is till 21st. On the net in a page in CR 42 units there was a note regarding his crashlanding on that date aftwr getting in a fight with a RAAF sqn. I have a number of CR 42 photos of 391 marked on the side. One is of 391-3 on it's belly. I know the net is not the place for accurate data but took the chance to see if anybody has any gen on Sqn 391 losses and that this may be the a/c. Where can one find 391' s war diary?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Guys

First of all there is a glitch in the Italian Casualties table on page 409

Two losses have been condensed into one or rather one loss is missing.

a) Page 403: M.llo Roberto Costantini was lost on a night mission from 101oGr.
b) Page 407: M.llo Urbano Suzzi (238a Sq) was shot down in the combat where Vodret took part.
c) Page 409: 238a Sq, 101o Gr, 5o St Tuff Serg Magg Urbano Suzzi MiA

Now 238a Sq belonged to 101o Gr and 5o St, so most probably the loss listed on page 409 was Suzzi and Costantini is missing from the Casualty list.

Gianandrea
I believe the three reported losses in the text refer to the three 389a/387a Sq losses in the Casualty list and Vodret is not listed at all.
If we read the Casualty list we find that two of these three CR.42 were recovered I think it is fair to assume that Vodrets CR.42 was also recovered especially if the damage was rather small. I think the Italians had a pretty good recovery system in the Desert. Also remember that the Battle of El Alamein had just started and there was no collapse yet of the front from Axis point of view. Perhaps the damage was so small it was not necessary to report it further up the chain?

Stefaan
Thanks for the clarification. Seems the internet site used have made a (probably) printing error when listing this fight on the 17th, since on that date nothing happened combat wise.

Needless to say the fighting with these losses above was a very confusing one with large number of units/aircraft involved on both sides.

Cheers
Stig

[Gianandrea Bussi]

Stig,
I've checked and you are right: the three reported losses in the text refer to the three losses in the casualty list and Vodret is not listed at all.

Stefaan:

R. Aeronautica units diaries are held at the Italian AF Historical Office in Rome but they usually don't contain (especially those ones of the fighter units) no info about individual codes wore by aircraft.

Gianandrea