Camouflage colours on a Ju 87A

[Clint Mitchell]

What is the source of the splinter pattern on the Ullmann illustration? I do not currently have the Ju87A handbuch available.

Is it derived from the Junkers handbuchs for the type or is it Ullmann's interpretation from available photos of the Ju87A?

From memory I can't remember if the splinter patterns were included in Junkers handbuchs or if like Messerschmitt types the splinter patterns were marked out on the actual engineering blueprints and not the handbuchs?

[obdl3945]

Source is given as "Pattern A - factory camouflage drawings".

[Clint Mitchell]

Ok, so assuming that what we are looking at is pre-painted components. Which if the Ullmann illustration is correct can be a reasonable assumption given the tonal differences of the individual components seen on the aircraft in the photo and how they then translate differently to the apparent official Ullmann RLM splinter pattern...

The areas which to my eye are really causing issues, are in fairness areas that have been meddled with at unit level. In which case the rule books and guidelines go out of the window so to speak. For example the tail area where the red band and older swastika style has been adapted into the newer style and as Ed has pointed out the overpainting of the factory codes which believe it or not and rarely visible on black and white war time photography occurred to varying degrees of application on 100% of LW aircraft photographed in service with a frontline unit.

Linked is a diagram I have created showing what I believe can be seen in the photo posted by Dénes: here

The tonal differences between the individual RLM61/62/63/65 splinter colours in my opinion can be explained by the extreme exhaust staining and the differing paint batches of the same colour seen on different components. The differing colour tones between the same individual RLM colours clearly adhere to the panel lines of the different components... For example the forward cowling components, which if we follow the Ullmann illustration should be the same paint colour as seen on the fuselage directly below the canopy.

The blue segment in my diagram is clearly an after factory, unit applied addition intended to cover the factory code (pre-war green) and the red segment is another addition at unit level that doesn't appear to follow the official Ullmann Ju87A pre-war splinter pattern, but maybe intended to allow the more important areas of the black unit code to stand out against the darker colour tones of the original factory pattern. In my opinion the red segment is a slightly lighter (in application) overspray of the pre-war grey colour that is allowing much of the underlying darker colour tones to show through thus making it appear darker to the same grey colour seen on the rudder and other sections of the aircraft.

Personally I believe what we are looking at is simply and as expected the normal pre-war RLM61/62/63/65 B (or A?...) splinter pattern for the Ju87A, but with the usual unit level meddling that was necessary to adapt how the aircraft was coded when it left the factory to what was required code wise at unit level...

[Clint Mitchell]

Thanks Paul.

[Modeldad]

Forget Ullmann's one diagram. I just went through my Anton pictures and painting was all over the place, probably 3 to 6 variations. And that is not to mention a good deal of repainting. For whatever reason, the 61/62/63 pattern was maintained, with perhaps later greens being used. Then again, some got repaint in what appears to be 71/65.

That is also a PR photo, which might explain what a freshly touched up aircraft was used.

[Clint Mitchell]

Thanks Modeldad. Putting aside the later usage of the Ju87A in the period where the RLM70/71 paints would have been available and utilised to repaint the aircraft in the new scheme. Speaking strictly from a pre-war RLM61/62/63/65 perspective which is what we are looking at in the photo posted by Dénes would it be possible to see the photos that show the apparent use of up to 6 schemes that you mention?

Are you including the 70/71 scheme and partial adaptation into the 70/71 scheme in that total? Because to my eyes at least the last 3 photos in your post show a full repaint to the 70/71 pattern/scheme?

I'm interested because in the recently published literature on the Hs123 they rather erroneously claim to have mapped out up to six possible variations of the Hs123 RLM61/62/63/65 splinter pattern when after quite a detailed investigation into the Hs123 splinter pattern it was clear that only two were utilised, an A and B pattern.

[Clint Mitchell]

After checking what RLM61/62/63/65 camouflaged Ju87A photos I have available to me, to be fair to Ullmann I'm not seeing a lot wrong with his diagram interpretation of what the pre-war pattern looked like. I think it is based on photographic evidence however and not an official period pattern diagram, but it stands up to what I am seeing in the photos quite well. Obviously the angles and shapes move slightly from one aircraft to the next which is to be expected, but they do loosely adhere to the same pattern as Ullmann's diagram.

Do you have a photo of the starboard side of an RLM61/62/63/65 camouflaged Ju87A that you can share with us that does not adhere to this pattern...?

[Primoz]

Do these variations include permutations of the three colors?

Back to "our" Ju 87A: if the lighter color on the nose (marked '1') only appears to be light (it could be RLM 62), and then the darker areas behind it (marked '2' and '3') reaching until a bit aft of the octane triangle are the same color (RLM 61), and the slightly lighter segment that comes next is RLM 62 again, then the only area where we can be sure there are 4 colors is around the codes. Then it's a Ju 87A with a standard camo pattern - but slightly repainted with a fourth color added under the '24'. The strange thing is that this fourth color (marked '1') looks like the normal RLM 63. Then why is the lightest color (marked '4') so pale? Is it a pale grey? It can't be so badly faded as the aircraft is in a good condition. Here another question emerges: Was the 3-color pre-war camo always only RLM 61/62/63 or did they use further colors?

[Clint Mitchell]

Well I did contemplate whether RLM02 could have been the mystery triangle colour applied under the "24" which wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility.

Concerning your last question: At the factory the pre-war 4 colour splinter undoubtably only consisted of RLM61/62/63/65. These were official diagrams and the precise colours were stipulated on them. As much scientific as colourful, these specific paint colours and splinter patterns would have been devised by experts in camouflage and colour theory based on the colours that would have been commonly encountered in the theatre where those specific aircraft would be operating. I think that any deviation from the official RLM approved patterns or colours that were specified to be used in those specific patterns would have been prohibited. I have seen zero evidence to suggest otherwise. Same with the later RLM70/71/65 splinter pattern. When they leave the factory however, that is when certain areas tend to get meddled with and we start to see anomalies to what we would expect, but you know the factories were charged with supplying exactly what the RLM wanted and for the factories to use non standard colours with certain splinter patterns it would not have been accepted in my views as long as there was adequate stocks of the paints available. This issue however during pre-war periods and early WW2 would not have been a factor. I'm not so sure how available paint stocks would have affected the camouflage schemes devised during late war times as that's not really my area...

[Graham Boak]

Modeldad's comment about six variations encouraged me to turn to Ken Merrick's Luftwaffe Colours - the original volume 1 of the Kookaburra series. In there is an illustration of the standard pattern that was applied to all Luftwaffe aircraft painted in 61/62/63. This existed in two mirror images, each of which had three different arrangements of the colours. Hence six variations. A drawing of the aircraft was scaled so that the span was as wide as the diagram, then the tailplane was placed at the bottom of the diagram. The differences in shapes of the aircraft gave the visible differences in the pattern. Only the plan view was used, with the manufacturers wrapping round the provided patterns onto the fuselage sides. This has to be open to some room for differing interpretations.