Luftwaffe nightfighter loss 20th Feb 1944?

[wwrsimon]

Hello everyone

I have another Bomber Command Combat report that I'd like some help with, if possible.

On 20th February 1944 at 03.40 hours (possibly 05.40 - the photocopy is poor quality), Lancaster ND533 M of 49 Squadron engaged a "DO.217" at position 52.10ºN, 12.38º E at 23,000 feet, on a course of 124º. The report is as follows:

"A DO.217 approached from astern and rear gunner opened fire at 100 yards, firing a total of 800 rounds continuously. E/A [enemy aircraft] was seen by the mid upper gunner to catch fire about the two engines, and after diving through the cloud was observed to explode and continue burning on impact with ground. Bright orange glow seen on ground for some minutes. One airman was seen to bale out of burning E/A during dive towards the ground. Claimed as Destroyed."

Can anyone give a corresponding Luftwaffe loss? The location is between the villages of Nedlitz and Wiesenburg, about 20 miles SSW of Brandenburg and 35 miles SW of Potsdam.

Many thanks

Simon

[Matti Salonen]

I have no Do 217 shot down in that night in Germany. Maybe misidentification. There were 10 Bf 110 nightfighters shot down and the following might be your "Do 217":
1944-02-20, 10./NJG 5, Bf 110 G-4, 720225, C9+EU, 20 km südwestlich Brandenburg, an der Autobahn, Absturz um 05.00 Uhr nach Luftkampf. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Fw Handing, Josef, +
Bordfunker Uffz Scholze, Rudolf, +
Bordschütze Gefr Thielcke, Otto, +

Matti

[wwrsimon]

Thanks again Matti, that looks like a likely candidate.

Regards

Simon

[Stig Jarlevik]

Matti

I am a bit intrigued by your mentioning of 10 Bf 110 lost that day.
I can only assume you refer to the whole day, including those lost during daylight hours.
However in Balss' two volumes I can only locate nine in all.

Would you mind to disclose which was the 10th one?

B Rgds
Stig

[Matti Salonen]

Stig,

Right, there are only 9, because one was lost during take-off (740057 of I/NJG 102). Also two of the rest 9 were reported as shot down by own AA and one crashed without any detailled reason. My point was that in theory there are several candidates but based on the reported locations I offered the most probable.

I have a total for the whole day (of different percentage) 35 Bf 110 of which 22 Werk.-Nr. are known.

As you have seen, identification of the aircraft type especially at night is very difficult and quite vivid imagination is needed when trying to find answers to questions of who shot down whom. Personally I am not too enthusiastic in looking for "killers" and trying to resolve how many of the claims are real kills and how much the pilots were overclaiming etc.
I prefer to preserve history of those poor chaps who lost their lives for their homeland, because they also were victims of the war besides millions of civilians.

Regards,

Matti

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Matti

Yes I follow you completely. I am not very interested in this who-shot-down-who either. My interest is more focused on the actual aircraft.

Your answer was even more interesting than I expected since it shows that many books, like the two written by Balss, does not give the complete picture. If the battles, both by day and night, are to be understood better we also need to know the number of damaged aircraft at each point.

I must say I am surprised that the total was as high as 35 though. Seems like the RAF gunners were more skilled than I thought.

Hopefully Theo Boiten will show this in his next generation of books.

Thanks again
Stig

[Matti Salonen]

Stig, 35 contains ALL Bf 110 losses on that day (damages over 10 %). Only 13 are nightfighters, the rest 22 are from ZG's.

Matti

[Stig Jarlevik]

Oopps

Sorry, I thought you were only talking about the night fighter losses.
Thanks for the clarification and 13 is much more in line with what to expect.

B Rgds
Stig