Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 4th January 2016, 11:07
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,197
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enoughStig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: "Beverley Anne" or "Beverly Ann"?

Thanks Richard

Has WNr 501232 been 100% confirmed by checking it at the USAF museum?

Also was 'yellow 5' the only Me 262 made flyable at Riem in May 1945? I can't understand how anyone can verify that is the aircraft in the top right corner in the photo on page 823 of Creek/Smith's vol 4....not even on the original one.
Since there is no reason to doubt Baur's logs I too agree, either the date is wrong or the Me 262 is something else than 'yellow 5'.

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 4th January 2016, 20:12
Richard T. Eger Richard T. Eger is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seaford, DE, U.S.A.
Posts: 626
Richard T. Eger is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: "Beverley Anne" or "Beverly Ann"?

Dear Stig,

I have no details on the discovery of this aircraft's Werknummer. Sorry.

Regards,
Richard
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 5th January 2016, 04:41
David E. Brown's Avatar
David E. Brown David E. Brown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bedford, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 290
David E. Brown will become famous soon enough
Re: "Beverley Anne" or "Beverly Ann"?

Hi Stig,

Regarding your questions, I can offer the following:

Way back in 1997 I determined that "Beverley Ann" / "Screamin Meemie" / "111" / "Reaper No. 20" / "BuAer 121442" was in fact "Yellow 5" WNr.501232. I based this on careful analysis of all the known photos of the aircraft and matching remnants of the camouflage pattern and dimensions of painted out German markings. In that year I was given permission to closely inspect the interior and exterior of the aircraft to determine if its werknummer was inscribed / painted on or in the aircraft. On my behalf, my colleague Mark Howard along with Robert E. Spaulding of the USAF Museum in Dayton spent about an hour closely inspecting the aircraft but did not find any additional markings that would confirm its werknummer. Nevertheless, I have no doubts whatsoever that “Beverley Ann” is “Yellow 5” and I shared all my information with the museum in 1998.

The photo described above was most likely taken on May 11, 1945 along with several others. The aircraft in the distant to right on the taxiway is “Yellow 5”. These images, while distant, show the aircraft in a combination of US and German markings.

There was a second flyable aircraft surrendered at Müchen-Riem on May 8 at the same time as Yellow 5. On that day, all the remaining jets in the Protectorate, about 15-20, were assembled at Saaz. Throughout the day, these aircraft were flown in groups or individually to the west by those pilots wanting to avoid Russian captivity. Two aircraft were flown to München-Riem departing at 1805 and landing around 1850 hours: "Black L" WNr.110836 of 2./KG51 flown by St.Kpt. Hptm. Rudolf Abrahamczik, and “Yellow 5” WNr.501232 of 9./KG(J) 6 flown by Lt. Heinrich Haeffner.

They had intended to fly further west and Dierich (1975, p.100) states that Haeffner's aircraft could not retract his landing gear due to a technical fault and thus the two aircraft diverted to München-Riem. Smith and Creek (1982, p.350-351) note that the aircraft "Yellow 5", WNr.501232 was "captured in a non-flyable condition." Close study of the background in various photographs reveals that the aircraft ended up at the northwestern corner of the München-Riem airfield (not Lechfeld as stated by the authors) and facing the same direction.

In his log book, Haeffner indicates that he flew an aircraft coded “7” (with a small chequer drawn before the number). Though a pilot with 2./KG 51, he flew a KG(J) 6 machine on that day. That he made an error in his book is probable given the circumstances and the aircraft coded “7” may have developed technical problems at the last minute requiring him to switch to a serviceable machine. Indeed, a 8./KG(J) 6 aircraft coded “Red 7” (WNr.5012??) was later discovered at Prague and given its werknummer and probably near identical camouflage and markings his confusion is understandable.

BTW, “Black L” ended up as “Jabo Bait” / “Doris” / “777” / “FE-110” / “T2-110” and was finally scrapped at Bolling Field, Washington D.C. in late 1947 after being on static exhibit for several years

You can find more information on these two aircraft in the JaPo book that I co-authored with Tomas Poruba and Ales Janda. Hope this helps

Cheers,

David

References

Dierich, W., 1975.
Kampfgeschwader “Edelweiss” - The History of a German Bomber Unit 1935-1945.
Ian Allan Ltd., London, 128p.

Smith, J. R., and Creek, E., J., 1982.
Jet Planes of the Third Reich.
Monogram Aviation Publications, Boylston, Massachusetts, 400 p.
__________________
"He has all of the virtues I despise and none of the vices I admire." W.S.C.

Last edited by David E. Brown; 5th January 2016 at 18:42.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 5th January 2016, 10:39
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,197
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enoughStig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: "Beverley Anne" or "Beverly Ann"?

Thanks David (and Richard)

Appreciate your efforts, and I have no reason to doubt your conclusions.
I was just curious why the identification was made so late in the aircraft's life at Dayton.

Also thanks for correcting the date when the air to ground photo was taken.

BTW I do have your two JAPO books....

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 5th January 2016, 14:35
Richard T. Eger Richard T. Eger is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seaford, DE, U.S.A.
Posts: 626
Richard T. Eger is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: "Beverley Anne" or "Beverly Ann"?

Dear David,

Left unanswered is from where was the W.Nr. of this aircraft determined? Since your 1997 physical exam failed to find the Werknummer in or on the aircraft, where did it come from? Back around 1958-59, the aircraft was stripped of its external paint down to bare metal, then painted a bogus gray with darker gray spots. Can you direct me to any evidence showing or listing this W.Nr. and then tie it to this aircraft?

In the famous photo of this aircraft where Watson is standing with a German at the side of this aircraft, presumably taken at Munich-Riem, is the German fellow Lt. Heinrich Haeffner rather than Kersting, which has previously been claimed? Dierich claims Haeffner was a First Lt. How reliable is Dierich's book?

Regards,
Richard
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net