Russians bomb Berlin 13 September 1942

[Brian]

Hi guys

What have I opened? A can of worms?

Assuming the two were not who they claimed to be, then who were they? Might they have been Russian spies?

Intriguing!

Cheers
Brian

[HGabor]

Anything possible. But the story -at least as it is written- from A.F. perspective, definitely looks fake.
Cheers,

Gabor

[researcher111]

Kirche

I agree with most the things you mentioned except the issue with the rank. During WWII Stalinist era pilots and navigators ( sturmans )
were demoted from higher ranks to Ryadovoy (PVT ) medals and titles were confiscated ,many airmen who returned from captivity
in a way or an other and just because they didn't join the camp escape commitees were sent to fly till end of the war as Straffniks on lower
ranks or no ranks at all. Many Navigators and pilots who just finished cadet courses started to fly as sergeants or even
corporals some however directly as Ml Lt. As example on the attached photo 4th from left SSgt (Starshina) was a Navigator.

Finally one question , can you identify the rank of the pilot shot attached ( other than General ) , year dated 1941 ?

PS ; One exception regarding long range crewmen especially those of TB-7 squadrons under special agreement between
Stalin in person and commander of long range avia korpus , airmen who fell in captivity once returned to USSR unlike
the other were not required to pass the NKVD clearing camps .

[kirche]

Finally one question , can you identify the rank of the pilot shot attached ( other than General ) , year dated 1941 ?

this is not the VVS RKKA pilot.This instructor aviation service of OSOAVIAKHIM.
insignia of the sample in 1937.
Star - this is not the title, it's the category of the post. I do not know the exact differences posts.

[kirche]

Navigators:
Plane - it's "strelok-bombardir"
Flight (until 1943) - it's "strelok-bombardir"; later - "shturman"
Squadron and higher - it's "shturman"

I did not say that the navigator of the aircraft can not be a sergeant, but I doubt it.
Stadnik said that he was 20 years old. is born in 1922. In 17-18 years (1939-40 year), he had to go as a volunteer in the VASh and finish it in 1940-41. if graduated prior to December 1940 that must be j.l-t or higher. If in December 1940, or later, it Sergeant or above. In the second case, the 09/13/1942, he was to serve for almost a year. He could get a higher rank.
Starshina (Major Sergeant), that you indicated, on two titles higher than Sergeant.
But it could have been...
Most importantly, that such a person appears who died in captivity, and that he was an PVT infantry.

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

In the handwritten letter attached to http://www.cometeline.org/fiche072.html "Alexis" (apparently Aleksey) Stadnik wrote that he fled from German captivity 15.Sep.1942 and that he is a bombardier-gunner of TB-3f.
It isn't clear whether ancient 4-motor TB-3 was mentioned or the modern (for 1942) DB-3f, renamed to Il-4 in 1942. As far as I know, TB-3f modification of TB-3 never existed. Anyway, the error seems strange.

P.S.
Oops, I have missed 2nd and 3rd pages of the discussion

[researcher111]

Kirche

Thanks for feedback Streliok/Bombardier who later promoted to Sturman was a very
rare terminology , earlier on the war it was named Letnab and then promoted to Sturman

Though from a Gunner /Bombardier to Stumanwas uncommon , something the uncle of
my wife who was by then St Lt in VVS cleared me up on.

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by HGabor

Paul,
In 1944 the Pe-8 crews still had several gunners, so they must carry (and use) guns and ammo.
Berlin, btw, was bombed by the 25 GvAP DD Pe-8s as well on March 13, 1943. Cheers,
Gabor

Gabor,

Indeed they did. The Pe-8 was armed with 5 ShKAS machine-guns and 2 ShVAK cannon, as far as I remember from the literature.

Am I correct to assume that no Pe-8s were lost on March 13, 1943, either? It is strange that these raids, performed by small numbers of low performance aircraft, appear to have suffered a lower loss rate than comparable RAF operations.

I have sent you a PM.

Warm regards,

Paul

[Juha]

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

Gabor,

... It is strange that these raids, performed by small numbers of low performance aircraft, appear to have suffered a lower loss rate than comparable RAF operations....

Hello Paul
Pe-8 wasn't a low performance a/c and LW defences were clearly orientated against attacks from the west.

Juha

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by Juha

Pe-8 wasn't a low performance a/c and LW defences were clearly orientated against attacks from the west.

Hello Juha,

The series production Pe-8 with its AM-35A engines was certainly a low performance aircraft by 1942. Your contention that the Luftwaffe defences were orientated against threats from the West is interesting, but doesn't fully explain the absence of night fighter interception.

Warm regards,

Paul