Photos 4-15

[Tony Kambic]

On the downed B-17, not sure as number is difficult to read but here's one possibility:

B-17F 42-3190 (94th BG, 333rd BS) shot down over France by fighters Jul 14, 1943. MACR 114

[George Hopp]

Hi Modeldad,
The 110G went through about 4 changes in its upper nose. The initial version was the streamlined fairing (around the air intake as in the 2nd photo you list) with 4 MG 17s. The 2nd version is what you have in that 2nd photo, ie, without the upper nose MG 17s. The 3rd version, has the squarish air intake fairing built for the installation of two MK 108 cannon (centre photo on p. 175 of "Zerstoerers, Vol. 2" by John Vasco) but without the MK 108s installed. And lastly, is the Version 3 but with the MK 108s installed. Now, unofficially, some 110Gs also had the MG 151/20s installed in the upper nose, which I guess you could call a 5th version.

Recce versions would have the cannon in the lower nose removed to make room for the camera in the centre cockpit, and would keep their upper nose weapons.

All the best,
George

[Modeldad]

George, thank you.

[Rabe Anton]

Gruß Gott ModelVati!

No need to suffer bepuzzlement over the upper surface paint scheme on
Bf 109B/C/D WNr. 544, B V + E S or R V + E S (references not to hand to know if 544 was a Bertha, Caesar, or Dora; strongly suspect a Bertha). This is simply an early (and obsolete) Bf 109 that survived to serve in a training or noncombat establishment (note the decidedly noncombat aircraft in the background) in 1940 and later. A great many—probably all—such retired survivors received a repaint in due course, possibly after a mishap, possibly not.

RA

[Primoz]

Originally Posted by Rabe Anton

Gruß Gott ModelVati!

No need to suffer bepuzzlement over the upper surface paint scheme on
Bf 109B/C/D WNr. 544, B V + E S or R V + E S (references not to hand to know if 544 was a Bertha, Caesar, or Dora; strongly suspect a Bertha). This is simply an early (and obsolete) Bf 109 that survived to serve in a training or noncombat establishment (note the decidedly noncombat aircraft in the background) in 1940 and later. A great many—probably all—such retired survivors received a repaint in due course, possibly after a mishap, possibly not.

RA

You're right. It also has different exhaust stacks (not unlike those of the Bf 109E) - like many other Jumo-engined 109s used as trainers.

[Tony Kambic]

Possibilities on the B-17

From Tony Wood

14.07.43 Maj. Egon Mayer Stab/JG 2 B-17 10 km. N. Evreux
14.07.43 Maj. Helmut-Felix Bolz Stab I./JG 2 B-17 15 km. E. Evreux
14.07.43 Ltn. Horst Zettel Stab I./JG 2 B-17 10 km. N.W. Evreux
14.07.43 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder 12./JG 2 B-17 1077/ 05 Ost
14.07.43 Ltn. Fritz Karch 6./JG 2 B-17 Douains 12 km. E. Évreux
14.07.43 Ltn. Georg Wroblewski: 1 3./JG 27 B-17 PD-1: 6.500 m. [Merlimont-Plage]
14.07.43 Oblt. Ivo Edler von Lübich 2./JG 105 B-17 BF-1:
14.07.43 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder 12./JG 2 B-17 e.V. 1-2 km. W. Goussainville
14.07.43 Fw. Wilhelm Flegel von Farnholz 6./JG 2 B-17 HSS 1-2 km. W. Goussainville: 8.000 m. [Dreux]
14.07.43 Maj. Egon Mayer Stab/JG 2 B-17 S.W. Paris

From Kacha

70 14.7.1943 8:24 B-17 Stab/JG 2 SW Paris / B-17 of 94 BG, USAAG

The 'A' on the B-17 tail indicates 94th Bomb Group

[Falcon]

Originally Posted by Rabe Anton

Gruß Gott ModelVati!

No need to suffer bepuzzlement over the upper surface paint scheme on
Bf 109B/C/D WNr. 544, B V + E S or R V + E S (references not to hand to know if 544 was a Bertha, Caesar, or Dora; strongly suspect a Bertha). This is simply an early (and obsolete) Bf 109 that survived to serve in a training or noncombat establishment (note the decidedly noncombat aircraft in the background) in 1940 and later. A great many—probably all—such retired survivors received a repaint in due course, possibly after a mishap, possibly not.

RA

WNr. 544 was Bf 109 B build at Erla Leipzig. Source: Prien

[Modeldad]

Thank you gentlemen.

Not being one who keep track of work numbers and remanufactured airframes, I found it interesting in that it had factory codes, was in the greys, but clearly was an early model.

The pictures I have seen of eaerly 109s used in training have the large numbers and are in green(s).