Intended use for Ju-287 jet bomber ?

[edwest]

Here is the German atom bomb diagram. You'll note it is not presented on a "crackpot" web site:

http://physicsweb.org/articles/world...new2%5F06%2D05


The German uranium enrichment facility was located in Poland at the IG Farben Buna Werke. The operation used coal fired electrical plants that generated more electricity than the entire city of Berlin. The NSA has released photographs of the plant. It includes an image showing two large cooling towers that bear a resemblance to those used in modern nuclear plants. This was a joint Heere, Luftwaffe and SS operation. Although the Americans knew about it, it was not destroyed.

In 1931, IG Farben was the fourth largest company in the world. It had the technical expertise to do this work.



Here is a view of the German reactor:

http://www.haigerloch.de/stadt/kelle...sch/EVERSU.HTM


However, this is not the whole story. In the Ruhr-Nachrichten, Dortmund, dated 24-1-1987, was a story titled: Divers salvage secret cargo of maritime hero Captain Carlsen - German zirconium was destined for the first nuclear submarine in the world. Also see this story:

http://www.deepimage.co.uk/wrecks/fl...ecretcargo.htm


As a professional researcher with 25 years experience, I have been asked to locate material that included things far beyond that with which I was familiar. I had to assume at the beginning that I would find something. At times, I would find things quickly but usually, it was a very uphill hunt with many impediments along the way. One could look at it as finding evidence for preconceived notions as the motivation, but there were instances where in my research I found nothing. So if many people say there is nothing find, I have to ask myself: have they looked or just relied on the word of others? I find that in some cases, no one is looking. So if there is nothing to find, why am I finding things?



Ed

[Ruy Horta]

Ed,

That Germany was working on the bomb isn't being disputed, how far they managed to get is another matter.

Heisenberg's War, Thomas Powers and Nazi Science, myths truths and the German Atomic Bomb, by Mark Walker make for interesting reading. Of course there are many such works.

As for the drawing, unfortunately the site is not all clear about its origins.

[Nick Beale]

I admit I'm way out of date on this but I did read David Irving's "The Virus House" many years ago and he made it pretty clear that little progress had been made before the war ended. A I remember it, they even had trouble amassing sufficient high-quality graphite to moderate a reactor (ditto for control vanes on the V-2, incidentally) hence the emphasis on heavy water.

[Richard T. Eger]

This is the process of Ockham's Razor. To apply your thought process to reject everything that is not in official war histories because you don't wish to explore the possibility is not a valid logical thought process.

The purpose of a forum is to explore the facts and uncover history which may for whatever reason may be lost to us in the present day. Just blankly denying and blocking that exploration serves no purpose.

In the absence of some other logical theory we have a series of related unusual facts all pointing to a similar conclusion.

I take pretty strong exception to this line of thinking. It is based on the assumption that all options are known and thus only the writer's option fits the evidence. Proving that one has all of the evidence is nigh on impossible. Just because one doesn't know something, doesn't mean that that information didn't exist at one time, such as an alternative reason for the extended bomb bays of the 3 selected He 177's.

Nor is it my or any other person's responsibility to come up with that alternative purpose. The facts may or may not out one day. If the writer wants to prove his case, then he should find the documentation that actually supports his contention.

And Ed, any physicist with some knowledge in the field could have conjectured on a possible bomb design. It is a long way from a crude drawing to an actual bomb. I can just imagine the tons of drawings created by the Manhattan Project. Where are those tons of drawings for Germany's bomb, assuming one was anywhere near construction?

Regards,
Richard

[edwest]

Hello Richard,


Good to hear from you.

I am tired of the reaction I get when I mention possibilities such as the Germans having successfully contructed atom bombs. I don't believe in throwing caution to the wind but I also believe that without looking one is guaranteed to find nothing.

To a degree, history is everyone's responsibility. During the conflict in Bosnia-Herczegovina, a Serbian tank was shown destroying a local library.

Anyway, there is a jigsaw puzzle out there. A collection of facts that do not fit known history. Eyewitness accounts of an atom bomb test. And certain deals being made to save the lives of certain nazis at the end of the war.

Might I respectfully point out the enormous effort put out by a particular individual to document German aircraft camouflage? Or the recent effort of a number of individuals to document the little known, 400 foot long, Japanese aircraft carrying submarine, the I-400?

I will continue looking in all those unfamiliar places.




Best regards,
Ed

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Ed,

Good grief! Are you actually claiming the Germans tested an atom bomb???

I've known about the I-400 since the story was presented at the Northeast Aero Historians meeting at the Air Force Museum about 1963. It was a phenomenally good talk and I waited in vain for it to be transformed into a book. It was only when Terry Treadwell published his book Submarines with Wings, followed by an updated version entitled Strike from Beneath the Sea (1985) that the story finally was in print. The NASM has an especial interest in this subject due to the fact that they have an Aichi M6A1 Sieran in their collection. Thus, in no way, was this a mythical endeavor, as both the talk and the book are profusely illustrated. There was also a video that included information on the subject, complete with actual footage.

Nor has there been any question as to the presentation of information by one of the world's leading experts on camouflage and markings. Photos of camouflaged German aircraft abound and having one person attempt to make sense of it all has no mystery, indeed, just hard, diligent effort and a passion to understand.

You and I butt heads whenever the subject of super secret activities that really haven't seen the light of day are built upon, sandcastle by sandcastle. I know that there is a furor, a real thirst for such far out information, in Europe.

Maybe I haven't looked in the right place. What I do look at are reports dealing with aircraft. The subject matter invariably is understandable in terms of the then known technology. There is no Buck Rogering within any of these papers. No super secret aircraft project. Smith & Creek have laid out the history of the Me 262 for all to see. Four volumes worth. 880 pages or so. Find one Buck Rogerism in there, if you can.

Thus, from the practical to the extreme, I have a great degree of difficulty accepting claims that press credulity, especially in light of all the reports out there. Recently, I was given a gift of a 158-page listing of almost all of the CIOS, BIOS, FIAT, and JIOA intelligence reports from 1944 to 1947. I seriously doubt that I will find any report in there suggesting that the Germans actually had constructed an atom bomb, let alone set one off.

This stuff, if it exists, is at least 60 years old. The making of an atom bomb can probably be found in many texts. Had a German atom bomb existed, the technology would be ancient and of no real secretive value. Thus, I would suggest, if you really want to prove your case, to use the F.I.O.A. and obtain the original German records, complete with bomb test results. A sketch of a possible bomb design hardly serves as proof.

As for our first bombs, we've all seen photos and videos of them, so even our government has taken the wraps off of these early bombs. No reason to keep photos of supposed German bombs a secret at this late date, either.

Sorry, Ed, but you press my buttons when you get on this subject.

Regards,
Richard

[edwest]

Thank you for that reply Richard.


I'll be picking up a copy of the book Le armi segrete di Hitler by Luigi Romersa. He was an Italian sent by Mussolini to witness a German atom bomb test during the war. At 14,00 Euros, I doubt he's getting rich.

I'll also be getting copies of some German patent applications filed during the war for a plutonium bomb.



Best regards,
Ed


P.S.
I'm done.

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Ed,

Documents and photos. Quoting from the movie Jerry Macquire: "Show me the money!"

As for an Italian being invited to witness a German atom bomb test, they stopped testing the Me 262 at Lechfeld briefly while Italian air crew were on the base for training, covering the planes with tarps. I sort of doubt that they'd be invited to watch something "beyond top secret Ultra".

Do you remember Joe Thompson? He was the guy in Australia several years ago who got everyone a-twitter claiming he had a fully functioning Me 262B-1a/U1 secretly shipped from a barn in Switzerland. As with here, photos and documentation were never forthcoming. One poor fellow was so taken with the story that he actually went to Australia to meet the guy. Afterwards, the story imploded.

Regards,
Richard

[Nick Beale]

Note the crucial point about the "reactor" that Ed provided the link to (and which was also depicted in Irving's book): the design couldn't go critical. The German A-bomb project had along way to go…

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Nick,

Yes, and even if we were to grant that the 3 He 177's with extended bomb bays were intended to carry atom bombs, it would prove nothing.

The RLM was extremely bullish on the HeS 011 jet engine and was pushing for mass production before a useable design had been achieved. Still, they tasked the design bureaus of the various aircraft manufacturers to design advanced aircraft utilizing this jet engine, even though it wasn't available.

Thus, as I said, even if those 3 He 177's were intended to eventually carry atom bombs, that hardly proves that such existed or were anywhere near to existing.

Regards,
Richard