German day fighter top aces by JG

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

Not sure about JG 2 as Bühligen included u/c in his total of 112, he had at least 99 confirmed, maximum of 105 confirmed. Mayer had 102 confirmed.

JG 7 =Stehle with 4
JG 11 = Hans-Heinrich Koenig with 24, Hackl 22+(likely leader)
JG 76 Von Aspern with 8
JG 300 Bauer, Zwesken and Bretschneider each with 21
JG 301 Kurt Welter with 17

Then we have training units. I think that these would attack heavy bombers if they came their way?

JGr.Ost Karlheinz Cordes with 2
JGr.west Hermann Hintzen and Schmid each with 2
JGr.Sud Horst Rippert and Rainer Müller-Haagen with 6 each.
JG 104 Eberhard Bock with 3

Other oddities:-

Kdo.262 Helmut Baudach and Alfred Schreiber with 2 each
Kdo.Nowotny Franz Schall with 5
JG 400 Siegfried Schubert with 3
Kdo.Hermann(at night) Friedrich-Karl Müller, Horst John and Kurt Roder with 3 each.
EGJ 2 Oskar-Heinz Bär
JG 200 Eduard Isken with 7
ZKG30 Peter Laufs with 4(presume twin engine fighters, day)
LG 2 Herbert Ihlefeld with 56
Jv44 Adolf Galland with 6
JG 50 Hermann Graf and Walter Grislawski each with 2.

I agree with you other listings. Joachim Müncheberg with 82 just misses out with Galland on 83 with JG 26.


Kind Regards

Johannes

[knusel]

Originally Posted by Johannes

Hi Michael

Not sure about JG 2 as Bühligen included u/c in his total of 112, he had at least 99 confirmed, maximum of 105 confirmed. Mayer had 102 confirmed.

JG 7 =Stehle with 4
JG 11 = Hans-Heinrich Koenig with 24, Hackl 22+(likely leader)
JG 76 Von Aspern with 8
JG 300 Bauer, Zwesken and Bretschneider each with 21
JG 301 Kurt Welter with 17

Then we have training units. I think that these would attack heavy bombers if they came their way?

JGr.Ost Karlheinz Cordes with 2
JGr.west Hermann Hintzen and Schmid each with 2
JGr.Sud Horst Rippert and Rainer Müller-Haagen with 6 each.
JG 104 Eberhard Bock with 3

Other oddities:-

Kdo.262 Helmut Baudach and Alfred Schreiber with 2 each
Kdo.Nowotny Franz Schall with 5
JG 400 Siegfried Schubert with 3
Kdo.Hermann(at night) Friedrich-Karl Müller, Horst John and Kurt Roder with 3 each.
EGJ 2 Oskar-Heinz Bär
JG 200 Eduard Isken with 7
ZKG30 Peter Laufs with 4(presume twin engine fighters, day)
LG 2 Herbert Ihlefeld with 56
Jv44 Adolf Galland with 6
JG 50 Hermann Graf and Walter Grislawski each with 2.

I agree with you other listings. Joachim Müncheberg with 82 just misses out with Galland on 83 with JG 26.


Kind Regards

Johannes

Hello Johannes,

thanks for your elaborate and intresting post !

To the others: this thread is not about the veracity of accepted claims. That issue really should be discussed in a separate thread.

Michael

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by knusel

this thread is not about the veracity of accepted claims. That issue really should be discussed in a separate thread.

Michael

So is it about comparing totals of events that may not even have happened? How is that useful?

[knusel]

...separate thread !

M

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by knusel

...separate thread !

M

Possibly, but how answering my question?

[knusel]

*sigh*
If you insist.
On the one hand: scores and scores of extremely good books and articles written by the greatest airwar experts in mankind's history.
On the other hand: a person named Nick Beale.

Whom would you give your attention ?

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by knusel

*sigh*
If you insist.
On the one hand: scores and scores of extremely good books and articles written by the greatest airwar experts in mankind's history.
On the other hand: a person named Nick Beale.

Whom would you give your attention ?

OK, so you've tried awfully hard to construct a withering put-down but you still haven't answered my question. What do you believe to be the value of comparing totals of events which may or may not have taken place?

[HGabor]

Excuse me? First I really thought that this is just a joke.
What is your problem with Nick's question? Do you really think that because some data was commonly used, copied and automatically repeated by many researchers in the past, using only one sided (German) information (namely the reported claims) without knowing anything about the verified losses of the other side, it makes their story true?

Please stop ridiculing yourself and be a little bit more realistic. Please, ask your 'world famous historians': based on what INFORMATION they published and repeated in the past eg. Hartmann's 352 'victories'? Please ask them to list the verified aircraft serial numbers and pilots of Hartmann's soviet victims! Your whole argument is pathetic and not worthy for a historical forum.

For me: in one hand there are black & white Allied and Soviet loss reports and war diaries -without missing any pages- (with specific AC serial numbers, pilot names, dates, units), while on the other hand there is Michael who wants to live in a wonderland and still believes in outdated fairy tales. Sorry, but here it is not too difficult to choose...

Gabor

PS: If Hartmann's and other's claims were all true, then Germany would have won WWII.