EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109?

[Roger Gaemperle]

Hello Lumabe,

Yes, they probably were attached to IV./EJG 1 that was stationed in the South at the end of the war.

Hello Junker,

Yes, Vaerlöse is 14./SG 151. I haven't seen a photo of one of their aircraft yet. It may well be that they used completely different styles of tactical markings.

Hello Steve,

Unfortunately, I can't attach a photo (it seems only to work if one can provide a link to a photo), but it was published in a Polish book about captured Butcherbirds. It shows '37' without propeller and rudder next to a Fw 190 coded 'White 5'. The color artwork also shows the '37' on the landing gear cover. They have interpreted it to be a white tactical code and a red '37' on the landing gear cover. I trust your judgment that it was in fact yellow.

Since 3./EJG 1 flew mainly Bf 109s and apparently used yellow codes, it would imply that 'Yellow 37' is not from EJG 1. Interestingly the font type of the code is almost identical to the one on 'White 48'.

Roger

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Roger Gaemperle

Unfortunately, I can't attach a photo (it seems only to work if one can provide a link to a photo)

Roger

Roger, you can attach an image provided it is on your computer, it doesn't have to be a link on the net (there are restrictions on file size though). If you click the paperclip symbol, it brings up a window "manage attachments". In that window are buttons saying "Browse ..." Click one of those and it should bring up a directory window from which you can find the image on your computer. Once you've done that, just hit the "upload" button.

[Roger Gaemperle]

Nick,

Thank you for explaining how to attach photos. I could attach it. The quality is not that good unfortunately, but should be sufficient to see if it is one and the same aircraft.

Roger

[lumabe]

Hello Roger,

I have this picture on the book: "Focke Wulf FW190 in action, Squadron/signal publications" page 41 with this legend: "Among the aircraft belonging to a training unit can be seen a Fw 190A-8/U1 two seated trainer. Of particular interest is the variety of color schemes found in this line up. (IWM)

The picture shows ten planes.

Best regards,

Lumabe.

[RolandF]

Not to forget the pictures from Mühldorf-Mettenheim a/f in Wings of the Black Cross 7 showing damaged Bf109s numbered with black 2-digit marks designated for cannibalizing. Most likely from IV./EJG 1

Regards
RolandF

[Charles Bavarois]

Regarding #7

Hello Roger,

around 60 reports on I./SG 151 in late 1944/1945. Mostly Fw190 F-8 and a few F-9. Three F-3 and single G3 and G-8. Often Baureihe /R1, There is only one A-5 reported on 22.01.1945, but without a Werknummer, so I think this is a typo.

For your research it may be interesting, to see what happened to SG 151 in April 1945 (source: MA Freiburg, RL2/III 69):

SG 151 was reorganized 8.4.1945 like
Stab SG 151
Stab I/SG 151 with 1., 2. and 12. Staffel
Stab II/SG 151 with 3. to 6. Staffel
independent 14. and 15. Staffel
Umrüstkommando (S)

14. Staffel was put under the control ("Unterstellt) of 15. Staffel,
Panzerblitz-Ausbildungs-Kommando under 12. Staffel,
Erg.Kdo Bü 181 under 15. Staffel and
Umrüstkommando (S) under Stab SG 151.

Stab III/SG 151 with 7. to 9. Staffel and Stab IV/SG 151 were disbanded at the same time. I have no clue, what happend with 10. to 13. Staffel.

3. and 6./SG 151 were disbanded 19.04.1945.

Greetings

Carl

[Stig Jarlevik]

Very interesting Charles

The date 8.4.1945 is one which seems to have been missed (or disregarded?) by de Zeng IV/Stankey in their Dive-bomber/Ground Attack vol 2 book. I interpret their sources that they at least know about the BA-MA RL 2 III documents. But since a major disbandment took place on April 3rd, your date makes sense. The major difference seems to be you claim 3./SG 151 now came under II./SG 151 while they claim it was still with I./SG 151.

Further they say that Stab IV./SG 151 and their 10. and 11. Staffeln were disbanded on 19.4.1945, while the 12.(See)/SG 151 was disbanded between 4-8.5.1945.

13./SG 151 disbanded early May 1945 at Avnö, Denmark when they surrendered to the British.

Cheers
Stig

[Charles Bavarois]

Hello Stig,

RL2/III 69 is a collection of orders from Generalquartiermeister 2. Abteilung. The date I listed is the day, when the order for reorganization/disbandment was filed. We know, that implementation of such orders often was delayed or even disobeyed, especially late war. So, the transfer of 3./SG 151 to II. Gruppe may have been on paper only and de Zeng is perfectly right.

When digging a little deeper I found another original document with has some differing data. Luftwaffenorganisationsstab Generalstab GQM
2. Abteilung (IIB) on 19. Mai 1945 (yes: after VE) reported
I/SG 151 with 1. and 2. Staffel at Schleswig, 12. Staffel (See) at Großenbrode
II/SG 151 with 4. and 5. Staffel at an unknown location
III/SG 151 with 7. to 9. Staffel disbanded 3.4.1945
IV/SG 151 with 10. and 11. Staffel disbanded 3.4.45
14. Staffel at Schleswig and 15. Staffel at Lübeck-Blankensee.

Greetings
Carl

[ju55dk]

There are a lot of errors in the list provided by Carl.
St I, 1. and 2. Staffel SG151 marched home from Grove/DK may 1945. The same with 14. Staffel who was at Vaerlöse/DK. From Aunö PanzerJagdstaffel SG 151 marched home at the same time.

But it's correct that 3/SG 151 did nor belong to I Gruppe. Confirmed by the StKptn of first Staffel years ago.

As for Fw 190 at Vaerlöse. Those with numbers belonged to 14/SG 151, and those with Skz. belonged to Schiesschule der Luftwaffe.

Junker

[Nick Beale]

17.02.45: From 12./SG 151 to SG 151 at Bayreuth-Bindlach: at [Lübeck-] Blankensee on 17th with 27 aircraft: 20(19) Fw 190 and 7(2) Ju 87. No fuel or bombs. (ULTRA BT 5361)

20.02.45: III./KG 200 at Staaken directed to supply 12 Fw 190 and ground staff to 14./SG 151 (Hptm. Eberspaecher). 14./SG 151 to undertake "simple" night attacks on account of its state of training. (BA-MA RL2 III/67)

17.04.45: OKL early 17th, General der Schlachtflieger transferring to Schongau (comment: from Rangsdorf and Ansbach). Stab/SG 151 to administer units in northern area. (KO 643)

18.04.45: General der Schlachtflieger requested SG 151 Schleswig-See for location Bücker 181 Nachtschlacht "Kommandos" 1, 2, 4, 9 and 10.

Comment: first mention Bücker 181 units 1, 2, 4, 9 and 10. Compare KO 1476 for information 18th regarding arrival 10. Panzerjagdstaffel at Straubing and further transfer to Münsteuer. On 17th, SG 151 at Rangsdorf to administer ground-attack units in northern area upon transfer General der Schlachtflieger to Schongau. (KO 1487)

06.05.45: III./KG 200 at Eggebek with 31 Fw 190, 446 personnel, 41 aircrew; I./SG 151 at Grove with Fw 190s (number unknown) and 357 personnel; 14./SG 151 at Vaerlose with Fw 190s (number unknown) and 185 personnel. (AIR55/227: HQ 2TAF Disarmament Intelligence Summary No. 2)