luftwaffe flying discs

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Ed, et al,

At last, I have found reference to lifter technology in a planned oral presentation at an American Institute of Aeronautics & Astronautics meeting:

42nd AIAA/ASME/SAE/ASEE Joint Propulsion Conference and Exhibit

"The Impulse to Explore-Igniting a Passion for Space"

Sacramento Convention Center, Sacramento, California, 9-12 July 2006

Tuesday Afternoon/11 July 2006

Session 91-NFF-5: Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Assessments

Chaired by: C. Taylor, Jupiter R&D, Houston, TX, and J. Hauser, HPCC-Space GmbH, Salzgitter, Germany

AIAA-Oral Presentation
An Assessment of Faster-Than-Light Spacetimes: Make or Break Issues
E. Davis, Inst. for Advanced Studies at Austin, Austin, TX

AIAA-Oral presentation
Null Tests of Breakthrough Energy Claims
S. Little, EarthTech International, Inc., Austin, TX

AIAA-Oral presentation
Experimental Findings of Lifters, Asymmetrical Capacitor Thrusters, and Similar Electrogravitic Devices
F. Canning, Simply Sparse Technologies, Morgantown, WV

AIAA-Oral Presentation
Experimental Results of the Woodward Effect on a µN Thrust Balance
M. Tajmar, Austrian Research Centers, Seibersdorf, Austria

AIAA-2006-4912
Breakthrough Physics Research at USAFA
T. Lawrence and K. Siegenthaler, U.S. Air Force Academy, USAF Academy, CO

AIAA-Oral Presentation
Responding to Mechanical Antigravity
M. Millis, NASA Glenn, Cleveland, OH; and N. Thomas, Univ. of Miami, Miami, FL

AIAA-Oral Presentation
Recent Theories on Fundamental Interaction and Possible Implications for Propulsion
O. Bertolami, Instituto Superior Técnico, Lisbon, Portugal

AIAA-Oral Presentation
Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Panel Discussion
- Moderated by Marc Millis, NASA Glenn Research Center

This is THE annual propulsion conference for the AIAA. I can't speak to the scientific basis of the talk that includes lifter technology, but at least there is a presentation on it in what is the most prestigious space propulsion conference of the year.

Thought you'd be interested to know about it.

Regards,
Richard

[edwest]

Dear Richard,


Thank you very much for posting this. In the 1920s, Thomas Townsend Brown published an article titled "How I Control Gravity."

My theory is simple. In the not too distant past, high-tech weapons included catapults and then cannons. Infantry weapons were also rather primitive. Then oil and derived chemicals were discovered, followed by synthetic fibers, fertilizers, and patent medicines. The point is money is made from things that come out of the ground. And from "planned obsolescence." I don't want to buy a new car every 3-5 years but I know the engine is not good for much beyond that.

I was immediately reminded of the X-15 program when I learned of the success of Burt Rutan's SpaceShip One. Richard Branson has contracted with Scaled Composites to build several SpaceShip Twos and a spaceport in New Mexico is on the drawing board. And cryogenic fuel is not being used.

Gentlemen, I submit that technology like electrogravitics will "appear" in due course. The US government decided to take another look at "cold fusion." In my own research, I've seen documents stating that in 1947 the Americans were concerned that the flying discs were Russian, based on German technology.

I am not writing this to convince anyone, just to put my information and theory out there.


Regards,
Ed West



Here is a site that covers the topic of lifters: http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/story.htm

[Nick Beale]

I have a suggestion. If anyone really believes that Germany had developed flying saucers, then why not tackle the question through the wealth of genealogical research tools now available online and elsewhere?

Find out about the births, marriages, careers, military service, academic credentials and deaths of Schriever, Habermohl, Miethe and Bellonzo (if they are not just figures of myth) and contact surviving family members.

Hundreds of thousands of people are doing this daily with their own families. It takes work and persistence but it offers a real chance to get some solid real-world information on these people and what they were doing at given points in their lives.

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Ed,

I checked the site you referenced. It looks like a lot of substantiation, although I'm not sure just yet how it actually works. It seems a long way off to create a useful lifting vehicle.

If the Germans had actually been far more advanced, then why did the work die off?

Regards,
Richard

[edwest]

Dear Richard,


You are asking me to stretch credulity again, but since you did ask.

As the war drew to a close, there were two, secret disc aircraft projects working toward completion. One used conventional propulsion, the other, electrogravitic. The latter was controlled by the SS. The Allies had been sending commandos into Germany to destroy, disrupt and capture what they could. Communications lines were cut, radio traffic intercepted, etc. The underground factories producing the conventially powered aircraft were overun before their deployment. A few of the conventially powered machines were captured relatively intact. The electrogravitic discs were used to evacuate that project's scientists, engineers and SS personnel to a base in Antarctica.

American Intelligence was just as incredulous as some of you reading this are now, but soon became convinced. In December 1946, Admiral Byrd set sail with an armada of ships and 4,000 troops for Operation Highjump. This operation was supposedly undertaken to test military equipment in extreme conditions. I think they would have saved time by sailing north. This explanation does not appear credible to me.

The operation was supposed to last months but was cut short. Reports afterwards indicated they were attacked by German disc aircraft. I suggest you look at the books, German Jet Genesis and Brighter than a Thousand Suns for mention of German discs.

So the Americans had conventional disc aircraft plans and some of those who worked on them but no electrogravitic craft. T. Townsend Brown was employed by the Naval Research Laboratory to get that job done. Further reference:

Conquest of Gravity Aim Of Top Scientists in U.S. (Photo caption) Dr. Charles T. Dozier, left, senior research engineer and guided missiles expert of the Convair Division of General Dynamics Corp. conducting a research experiment toward control of gravity with Martin Kaplan, Convair Senior electronics engineer. And below that: Changes Far Beyond Atom Are the Prize, Revolution in Power, Air Transit Seen. New York Herald Tribune, Sunday, November 20, 1955.

If I was in the oil industry, that's a development I would not like to see. This program faded from view in the late 1950s as if it never existed.


Regards,
Ed

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Ed,

You do realize, I hope, how bizarre some of your statements sound. For instance:

The electrogravitic discs were used to evacuate that project's scientists, engineers and SS personnel to a base in Antarctica.

This is even crazier that the old chestnut that Hitler escaped to Brazil, Argentina, or Antarctica in a U-Boat.

To put this in perspective, while there were enough Jumo 004's available for all the Me 262's being built, the Germans, at the end of the war, lacked the transportation system to get the engines to the assembly facilities. Fuel and transport means were in extremely short supply. The infrastructure of Germany was in shambles. So, you are saying that, at the last minute, things could quite orderly be put in place to evacuate the entire project to Antarctica utilizing these antigravitic discs, which no one in Allied intelligence ever saw?

As for David Master's German Jet Genesis, David at least treats the subject with a degree of skepticism.

Your message implies a huge and ongoing coverup. If we need an example of super secret history, we only have to look as far as stealth aircraft technology. Sooner or later, for an aircraft to actually be able to be utilized, the wraps have to come off. We've seen it with the F-117. Sure, it was kept under cover for a long time. But, eventually, we got to see what the plane looked like. Logically, if the Germans had something functional and exceptional in terms of conventionally powered flying discs, that technology would have been followed up upon and, certainly, the wraps would have come off of the development ages ago. That never happened.

As for the electrogravitic lifter technology, it appears to be in a very immature state. Whether this could ever be tranformed into an actual heavy lift capability, only time will tell. Your proposition is that, not only did the Germans work on it, but they matured it into that very practical heavy lift capability in the midst of a war that was very much going south. Then, as a reason why we never were privy to the technology, you proffer the suggestion that the project, in toto, was flown to Antarctica, never ever to be heard from again. Rather convenient, don't you think?

At least we are in agreement that the Admiral Byrd thing sounds, well, less than plausible.

You can't prove your case by saying the evidence went south and disappeared. I could do the same, but it wouldn't be proof.

Ed, I fear that you are so taken with the subject that you may be building a house of cards, a half truth here, an inference there, and an innuendo transliterated into a fact. Go and get the hard evidence and, if it doesn't exist, then save face and back away.

As a comparative example, the story I hear was that Colin Powell wasn't at all happy with the evidence that he was being given to take to the U.N. to make the case for war with Iraq. He threw out much of it, asked for better, then went with the best he had, which wasn't that great. In the end, we know that none of the evidence was worth a damn. Powell is an honorable, but very cautious man. He also played the dutiful soldier, perhaps too much so. So, even with the vast resources of U.S. and British intelligence, we were duped. I believe you have far less at your disposal. Please be very careful.

Regards,
Richard

[Franek Grabowski]

Richard
Have not you heard about Dr Mengele's experiments that led to a new superhuman race? They had to have 5 feet and green skin to reduce target size and increase camouflage, four eyes to improve observation abilities and three fingers in each hand to reduce possible injuries. Dr Mengele dissapeared in the South as you know.