Saburo Sakai

[mars]

Originally Posted by focusfocus

64 kills ( 4 in china) generally admitted but according to his log book 78

regards

According to Japanese source, his final scores were around a dozen, he only fought about 8 months in the pacific war, after recovering from his wound, he flew few combat missions

[knusel]

Dear Gentlemen,

these are the known kills of Sakai according to Sakai who attributes him with 60+ kills and according to Hata/Izawa/Shores who attribute him with 64 kills:
05.10.38 I-16 A5M 12 AG Hankow
03.10.39 DB-3 A5M 12 AG Hankow
08.12.41 ground kill B-17 A6M2 Tainan Philippines Clark Field
08.12.41 ground kill B-17 A6M2 Tainan Philippines - Clark Field
08.12.41 P-40 A6M2 Tainan Philippines - Clark Field
10.12.41 B-17 14 BS A6M2 Tainan Philippines [not credited]
Feb 1942 damaged B-17 A6M2 Balikpapan
28.02.42 F2A A6M2 [kill #13]
22.07.42 Hudson Sq 32 A6M2 Tainan Buna
07.08.42 F4F VF 5 A6M2 Tainan Guadalcanal
07.08.42 SBD VS 71 A6M2 Tainan Guadalcanal
07.08.42 EA A6M2 (3 kills on that date)
Shores attributes at least 4 kills over Guadalcanal to Sakai
his total reached in summer 1942 is variously given as 28 or 58 or 61
24.06.44 F6F USN A6M5 Yokosuka Iwo Jima
24.06.44 F6F USN A6M5 Yokosuka Iwo Jima
24.06.44 F6F USN A6M5 Yokosuka Iwo Jima
05.07.44 F6F USN A6M5 Yokosuka Iwo Jima
17.08.45 "B-32" ??? = "B-29" on the last day of war ??? (Shores)

Cheers,

Michael

[DavidIsby]

I believe that the Netherlands East Indies naval biplane Sakai claimed has been related to a specific loss (though it is not on the above list).

[focusfocus]

here is a verified list

2.5.42 3 P-40 1 justified shared with 6 others pilots
3.5.42 2 P-40 2 P-39 justified shared with 2 others pilots
12.5.42 2 P-39 1 justified shared with 5 others pilots
14.5.42 1 B-25 1 justified shared with 4 others pilots
21.5.42 1 P-39 no justified
25.5.42 6 B-25 6 justified shared with 11 others pilots
26.5.42 5 P-39 1 justified shared with 7 others pilots
28.5.42 2 B-26 2 justified shared with 3 others pilots
1.6.42 1 P-39 3 justified shared with 10 others pilots
9.6.42 4 B-26 2 justified shared with 24 others pilots
16.6.42 4 P-39 5 justified shared with 10 others pilots
22.7.42 1 hudson 1 justified shared with 5 others pilots
26.7.42 3 B-26 3 justified shared with 8 others pilots
30.7.42 1 B-17 no justified
2.8.42 1 P-39 2 justified shard with 5 others pilots

total= 4.3 !!!!

we are far of 64 or 28 victories

regards

[Flavio]

Dear all,

referring to the score of Japanese aces, we all know that the overclaiming is very high and accuracy is very low. However just for statistic purpose we can have a look to what was official credited. In my opinion one of the most "accurate" source (apparently based on official documents, not memoirs....) is the book "Heroes of the Imperial Japanese Navy Air Force" Model Art no.439.
Here, there is a detailed list of Sakai's victories (see attach) that summarizes 55 individual claims + 19 shared (WW2 only).

I think this could be the score we have to use for compare Sakai's victories to those "officially" credited to the other Aces (Japanese or not).

Of course the verified list is another story...

Flavio

[mars]

Originally Posted by Flavio

Dear all,

referring to the score of Japanese aces, we all know that the overclaiming is very high and accuracy is very low.

I kind of think this is depend on individual and the units, at least in the early stage of the war, Japanese overclaiming rate were no worse than American and British they fought

[focusfocus]

hi

no not necessarily shared but also as individual recorded.

the japanese overclaiming rate is much important than american and british

some examples japanese

6.4.42 5 claims 2 real losses
10.4.42 3 claims 1 real losses
2.5.42 8 claims 1 real losses
25.5.42 6 claims 6 real losses!
18.6.42 18 claims 5 real losses

4.42 to 10.42 = 374 claims ( all in the official "kodochosho") rabaul/new guinea 139 real losses US and BRITISH

the difference with overclaiming US

guadalcanal 7.8.42

claims of VF5 :Scarlet 2 and scarlet 8 : 5 claims
japanese real losses: 4

a very good ratio claims/losses

claims of VF5 and VF6 : 16 vals
japanese real losses : only 5 vals of the 2°kokutai

and now the japanese
in the "kodochosho" 36 claims 11 real losses US!

regards