Aerial Battles around Kiev October 1943

[yogybär]

Bump .

Strange, normally the Lw-side is much easier then the VVS-side when it comes to OOB's. But here it seems different.

Is there really no information about this operation from the german side? For the VVS, we already have quite some information gathered.

Dénés, do you know where and within which german unit the RHAF fighters were in October?

[Leo Etgen]

Hello guys

III./JG 51 was based at Poltawa in October 1943 along with IV./JG 51 in October 1943. IV./JG 51 was also based at Orscha in October 1943, all this according to www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg51.htm Note that although this web page states that III./JG 51 was flying the Bf 109 G-6 at the time it really was flying the Fw 190 A-4, A-5 and A-6 as can be seen at www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/biiijg51.html Stabsstaffel/JG 51 was also operating in the south at the time but I do not know from which particular base although possibly the same as III./JG 51. I hope this helps out at least a little.

Horrido!

Leo

[NBE1942]

If IV/JG51 was based in Orsha, it could not have participated in the Kiev battle...

[yogybär]

Thanks Leo, JG51 is a good hint!

But... the Wehrmacht left Poltawa on 22nd of September 1943. So, no Luftwaffe unit could have been stationed there in October 1943 . I assume there is another place called "Poltawa" far more West then the big city we all know from the US-shuttle-raids...

Who kows another Poltawa on the right bank of the Dniepr?

[Dénes Bernád]

Mapquest shows 3 Poltavas in Ukraine:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...=&city=poltava

[yogybär]

Hey, that is a good way of finding places!

Nevertheless, it is no solution of our riddle, because the "other" Poltavas aer even lesswestwards then the big one... strange...

[yogybär]

After some research, I propose the following german-hungarian OOB:
Stab/JG51 (Fw190)
I/JG51 (Fw190)
IIIJG51 (Fw190)
IV/JG51 (Me109)
II/JG54 (Fw190)
5., 6., 12./JG54 (Fw190A-4,5,6)
Stab, II,III / KG3 (Ju88 )
KG4 (He111)
I, II / KG53 (He111)
SG77 (Ju87, Fw190F)
NSGr.4 (Doppeldecker)
Transporter (Ju52, Me323)
dt. Aufklärer (Fw189, Me109)
ung.Stuka-Staffel (Ju87D)
ung.Bomber-Staffel (Ju88 )
ung.Nahaufkl.-Staffel (Fw189)
ung. Fernaukl.-Staffel (Ju88 )

with the following numbers of planes in PF:
Ju88: 84
He111H: 160
Bf109G4: 23
Bf109G6: 17
Fw190A-4: 34
Fw190A-5: 55
Fw190A-6: 41
Ju87D3: 43
Ju87D5: 36
Ju87G: 4
Fw189: 32
Fiat DoDe: 30
Ju52: 40
Me323: 6
Storch: 30
SUMME: 635

Any comments? Or is it just figure-f**king which doesn't interest anyone else ?