Kdo. Nowotny markings : STOP THE MYTH !

[Dan O'Connell]

The first "stenciled tail" photo, of White 7, with the exposed interior, was taken at a dump in Neubiberg. The other two, of White 1, were taken at Innsbruck. I am greatly enjoying this conversation; I have tried for years and years to stop this "Kdo Nowotny" myth.

[O.Menu]

Ok, it definitely seems that this intermediate wooden experimental fin can be identified from its non flat under part. And it was not specific to the “snake” fins as you will see bellow with rudder from “17+S” 110956 left & right, “B3+CL” 110567 right side only (note missing cap) and finally one more from “9K+FH” showing that it was finally not so dark on her right side at least, probably some kind of red or yellow over-sprayed with a dark-green serpentine.

… …

Sources:
Photo1 > Burindo “Famous Airplanes of the World” No.115.
Photo2 > Luftwaffe Warbirds Photo Album Vol.3, Delta Pub., 1993.
Photo3 > “Wings of the Black Cross”, Nb 3, M.Proulx, 2005.
Photo4 > “JV44, The Galland Circus”, R.Forsyth, 1996.

[pstrany]

Hi;

Interesting theory about the alternative "underslung" tail nav light, but I think it would not be practical to locate the nav light UNDER the rudder. Also, as I look at the photos shown (and also scanning what I have) I note that the "opening" does not appear to be consistent, and has a rather "jagged" appearance.

May I suggest an alternative explanation? Overzealous pilots.

What I have noted in looking at these pictures, and many others, is that the shape of the bottom of the rudder in some aircraft is nicely rounded, while on others it is very flat. My hobby is "building" virtual aircraft for a flight sim, which tends to make one very aware of movement and function. For instance, note the Flettner tab on the rudder which virtually all 262s had (though it is rarely noted.)
I also include this screenshot:



Though I know it is a model (nobody would let me rotate a real 262 on its tail to illustrate my point, hence this shot) it illustrates clearly that when the 262 over-rotated, the first area of contact with the ground was the rudder. I would submit that the big problem with the early tail light arrangement was that the plexi "globe" was shattered too often by pilots over-rotating, either on take-off or landing, and could explain why the nav light was relocated. I also submit that while metal may dent, the wooden rudders would be more prone to shattering, hence the rather jagged nature of the bottom of the wooden rudders illustrated.

Certainly, on the photo of “white7” 110376, it would appear that the entire bottom of the rudder is gone! This may be why the wooden tails were not used more, because the wood would shatter where the metal tails would usually just dent, making them more resilient. Again, the fact that a lot of aircraft with metal tails seem to have a flattened "bottom" to the rudder (albeit at an angle, similar to that illustrated by my example above) indicates to me that this is a very real possibility, and indeed may have been a quite common occurance.

Paul

[O.Menu]

Very interesting alternative explanation Paul, actually more dual than alternative.

But i still think that we are in front of a third kind of rudder simply because i was not able to find any flattened rudder with the transparent cap or with the late external navigation light. Indeed i agree that especially the two "snake" ones look damaged but they are the two only "snake" one i was able to find with enough good quality.

If your explanation is the correct one, and it could be, then you can notice than they indeed dont have the transparent cap nor any late external navigation light at the end cap which would mean that they dont have any navigation light on the rudder (even if i agree that the last two could be discuted since "white 17+S" shots are of poor quality and the end cap from "B3+CL" is missing) and that i was not lucky enough to find one of those with no light but non flattened which is possible...

Then remain the question was there any navigation light on the wooden experimental rudder?
Could someone find a non flattened rudder with the "snake" pattern?

( "White4" looks to be non flattened but with the late external nav light which would mean that the stenciled "snake" pattern could have been painted over non wooden rudder > but the photo i not of good quality enough to be sure)

[O.Menu]

The more i think about and the more i think you are right Paul... I was more collecting informations than on a criticise time those last days

The two "snake" are obviously dammaged and more broken than flattened probably cause of their wooden construction.
The others, steal ones, are flattened and dammaged like "B3+CL", or probably repaired like "9K+FH", or bad quality shots like white "17+S" which could have the late version navigation light at the end cap.

So only remain one question did the wooden "snake" rudder got any navigation light?
From the above photos they clearly dont have any transparent end cap nor any late external navigation light... Perhaps because they were experimental and thus not suited for combat units at least at the begining? One more reason to think that none of them were delivered to Kdo.Nowotny... (Hehe time to return to original topic)

[panzerscheibe]

Hi Olivier,

thanks a lot for your note about this problem. Your are right and it was time to stop this myth. Very bad that we see again and again the same photos with the wrong captions! Did the Me 262 authors didn't see these things or realize our discussion!

All the best
Panzerscheibe

[George Hopp]

I think you will find that most authors are working to a deadline, and so just don't have the time to research all aspects of the topic they are writing about. So, they may use information from sources they consider reliable, to fill in the parts they cannot or will not research themselves. And, that can get you recurring errors such as the ones mentioned above.

[Dan O'Connell]

George, apologies, but if someone writes to present information strictly on a deadline, they have no business having it in print. It shouldn't be printed until the author says it's ready, and they are completely able to back up their information. Many see a book as "the word" and it takes forever to change those erroneous interpretations. This case of "Nowotny markings" has been around at least 30 years, and it will probably take another 30 to re-educate everyone.

[Ruy Horta]

Nice presentation, thanks to all who participated!

[Roger Gaemperle]

Olivier,

I just came across a document of Obb. Forschungsanstalt Oberammergau (the Messerschmitt project office) dated 18.9.44 that describes the wooden rudder manufactured by JSF. It states that "... it has to be examined whether moisture can get into the navigation light compartment or not".

Hence, the wooden rudders, or at least the ones manufactured by JSF, must have had a navigation light. Would be interesting to find some period drawings of the wooden rudder.

Interesting side-note: The wodden rudder was only slightly lighter than the serial rudder (14.5 kg vs. 18.6kg).

Kind regards,
Roger GAemperle