Bueligens P-38 kills, disputed

[Black baron]

Yes I'm familiar with all that Mars. & don't watch football.

[Ludovico Slongo]

I've joyned this thread -going a bit off topic- because impressed by the deep knowledge on 82nd FG displayed by Mr. Martin Gleeson. So I'm asking help to better reconstruct a fight between Italian Macchis from 1° Stormo CT and American Lightnings most likely of 82nd FG itself, a combat that has always intersted myself but whose details are not very clear to me.This combat took place on the morning of 5 May 1943 when a group of seven Siai Marchetti SM 82 (of 149° Gruppo T) took off at 8.45 (Italian hour) from the airstrip of Gerbini (Sicily) directed towards Tunisia under escort of 16 Macchis of 1° Stormo led by the ace Tenente Amedeo Guidi. the Italian planes were intercepted 20 miles from Zembra by some P38s .The Siais coded 602-5 (Tenente Camerini), 608-3 (Maresciallo Barba) went down in flames with no survivors. The 603-3 (Maresciallo Mascetti) exploded while ditching near Zembra island (the pilot and 5 passengers survived), the 608-2 8 (Tenente Rosci) ditched near Tunis (crew rescued), the 607-3 (Tenente Setti) force-landed in a Tunisian beach and finally the last two machines turned back. Some of the machines -at least the three that exploded- carried fuel, while Tenente Fulvio Setti was finally able to repair his kite and flew back to Italy gaining the gold medal for bravery for this mission (it is the highest Italian military award and very seldom was given to living people).It seems that the Macchis (possibly 202s) claimed seven confirmed victories plus seven damaged or alternatively only seven probables. An Italian source (Nino Arena -that sometimes appears not fully reliable) claims that two Macchis went down while another (possibly Corrado Ricci) doesn't record any fighter loss. Here is what I know of this combat. Is anyone able to add any detail of the P38s part in it (numerical consistance of the American unit, claims and losses) ? Is there any Italian expert that could add some details on the Italian claims and losses or correct any detail of the above description?Many thanks in advance.Ludovico.

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo Ludovico,

Thank you for your kind words but I fear my knowledge is not as deep on the 82nd FG as you think ! Your detailed posting on the 5 May 1943 battle was new to me and very welcome as it revealed who were the opponents on the 'other side' of that severe engagement.

In this case, as usual, I depend on 'ADORIMINI - A History of the 82nd Fighter Group in WW2' by Steve Blake and John Stanaway. Also Frank Olynyk's 'USAAF (MTO) CREDITS for the Destruction of Enemy Aircraft in Air-to-Air Combat WW2'.

The 95th Fighter Squadron of the 82nd FG were flying escort to six B-25s of the 321st BG(M) on an anti-shipping strike. The seventeen P-38s were arranged in four flights led by Capt. Osher. On sighting the enemy formation ("six Italian SM 82 transports and some escorting fighters") Osher led two P-38 flights into the attack. The following claims resulted;

Capt. Ernest K. Osher One SM 82 and one MC 200 destroyed.
2/Lt. Richard F. Kenney Two SM 82s and one Bf 109 destroyed.
2/Lt. Guido F. Lucini One SM 82 and one Bf 109 destroyed.
1/Lt. Charles R. Langdon One SM 82 destroyed and one Bf 109 damaged.
1/Lt. Julius F. Schoenberg One SM 82 destroyed.

The 95th FS lost two pilots and their P-38s. Both men were fairly inexperienced. They were;

2/Lt. Allen E. Ellerbee
2/Lt. Edgar L. Weddle

No times quoted, except the mission appears to have begun at 07.45 hours, US time (F. Olynyk).

I will ask Steve Blake, THE 82nd FG expert, if he has anything further on this combat. By the way, was the SM 82 of Ten. Setti damaged by the fighters before he was forced to land ?

Regards for now.

Martin Gleeson.

[Ludovico Slongo]

dear Martin,thank you for your pieces information, I appreciated them very much. Back to your question, as far as I know Tenente Setti was shot down and obliged to force land by the fire of the Lightnings even if it seems likely that damaged suffered was not so heavy.Apart from being very interested in any additional information on the American units, I really hope that someone else could help with the Italian claims and losses (in particular if any Macchi was lost during the engagement) as well as with other addictions/corrections to the description I wrote yesterday (that is almost integrally taken by the Official History of Nino Arena, sometimes a not-so-much-reliable source, but possibly accurate on regard of losses suffered by Italian Units). I know that some of the best Italian researchers are members of this forum (Gianandrea Bussi and Ferdinando D'Amico at least) maybe they can help.Kind RegardsLudovico.