Joachim Müncheberg's 100 victory

[Artur PK]

Hello all!

I have a question, especially to our Russian friends. On 5 September 1942 Hptm. Müncheberg claimed his 100-101 vic. near Kubinka. Both machines (according to his victory list) were P-39 and he was probably the only JG 51 fighter who claimed Airacobras that day.
Were there any P-39 units around Kubinka at that time? If so, who was shot down by the German ace?

Cheers,
Artur

[Leon]

Hi Artur
I've missed this topic - it should be in Soviet Aviation subforum .
On 07.08.42 there was detached a group of 8 pilots with ACs and 25 technical stuff from 153 IAP/28 GIAP eqquiped with P-39s of Voronezh Front to the Western Front. Their commander was maj. O.M. Rodinov. They were operating from Kubinka, Alferevo, Klimovo to 11.09.1942. This gruop lost two planes (2 pilots injured) in combat and one (pilot killed) from non combat reasons. This part claimed 13 german ACs destroyed - 9 Ju-88, 4 Bf-109.
By V.Roman "Aircobry vstupaiut v boi"

[NBE1942]

On this date detachment from 153 IAP, which was surely the only one unit equipped with Aircobras on this sector of the Eastern front suffered no losses. So as on the nearest to September 5 days.

[Christer Bergström]

I can confirm what NBE1942 states.

My personal conclusion is that it might have been the La-5 which 49 IAP lost during an interception of Ju 87s on that day. By this time, the Germans were not aware of the fact that the Soviets used La-5s in this sector (49 IAP brought the type into action only in August 1942). Thus, for example I./JG 52 recorded the first La-5s which they shot down in August 1942 as "I-180".

[Leon]

NBE1942 and Christer Bergström
Do you know the dates of 153 IAP detachement losses? Roman didn't write about it.

[NBE1942]

Two Cobras of 153 IAP were lost in combat on September 11, 1942, area of Zubtsov. Germans claimed three of them and it seems that Miethig and Freuworth engaged and claimed one and the same plane.

BTW, no La-5s of 49 IAP was lost on September 5, 1942. One La-5 failed to return in 146 IAP. Judging by time and place of Muncheberg's victories no corresponding Soviet losses could be found.

[Artur PK]

Leon, Christer, NBE1942

Thank You for your fast replies! But it's not getting clearer. I am aware of the fact that no corresponding Soviet losses could be found (i.e. he shot down nothing), but - is it possible to indicate the unit he fought with? What about P-40's IAP's around Kubinka???

Once again,
Thank's for your previous help!

[NBE1942]

I have little doubt that Muncheberg clashed with Aircobras of 153 IAP. At least he saw several of them in Kubinka area. Judging by place of claims Muncheberg and his wingman (BTW, who was it for this flight?) were on free hunt far on the enemy territory. No Soviet units indicated any contact with enemy exept 146 IAP and 179 IAP. One La-5 failed to return and one Yak-7 was damaged in combat. This happened early in the morning.
One Hurricane of 179 IAP was shot down, pilot bailed out. The place and time of incident is far from that listed by Muncheberg.
No other Soviet units reported any claims or losses.
No P-40s equipped units were presented there...

[Artur PK]

I have no informations about his wingman's claims that day (I don't know who flew with him). Müncheberg's claims took place in the afternoom (17:53, 17:57), so we can preclude both IAPs.

NBE1942
I found an information that on 5 september 1942 Stab/JG 51 protected Ju 87, but I don't know whether it is true or not. There were a few claims of JG 51' pilots around Styschupka (?) at about 17:00-17:40 (including LaGG-3). Is it far from Kubinka?

[Christer Bergström]

ArturPK:

I found an information that on 5 september 1942 Stab/JG 51 protected Ju 87

Very interesting! May I ask in which source you found that?

NBE1942:

no La-5s of 49 IAP was lost on September 5, 1942.

At least due to the 49 IAP records which I have here, one La-5 was lost during an engagement with Ju 87s on 5 Sept 1942. One Ju 87 was claimed by Kapitan Pavel Bashkirov and M.Lt. Pavel Zeskin. Area: Vazuza River. Source: TsAMO, f. 1 VA, op. 3308, d. 19.