Who shot down G. Barkhorn?

[yogybär]

There must have been quite some aerial battles.

Barkhorn claims three on that day (Aira, Il-2, Jak-9). JG52 altogether claims 62(!) kills on that day, nearly all being Airacobras and Il-2. 16 of these claims again are issued by Wilhelm Batz from Stab II/JG52. That's really a lot. Additionally, SG2 claims 13 kills and NAGr.14 three. So, Luftwaffe in sum claims ca. 80 A/C shot down.

Was all this over the area of Targul-Frumos? All claims are in Lw/Wehrmacht map-location 78_5,6,7,8_xx, some "near AF "B."" which might mean Beltsy aka Balti, by then a soviet airbase again.

[Christer Bergström]

Definitely! It was the Battle of Iasi. One of the Luftwaffe's last victories in an air battle.

[Andrey Dikov]

>Beltsy aka Balti

Beltsy and Balty = are two different locations.

>Iasi

Yassy.

[Andrey Dikov]

>Was all this over the area of Targul-Frumos?

All in all 5th Soviet Air Army lost 156 a/c in May (33 Yak-1, Yak-7b and Yak-9D, 12 La-5, 65 P-39, 8 Pe-2, 28 Il-2 - 98 pilots, 4 navigators and 28 gunners were lost), including 121 combat losses.

On May 30 - 36 a/c were shot down for all reasons, on May 31 - 34 a/c.

So, it's just a matter of overclaiming - 1:3 ratio - quite standard for 1944.

[yogybär]

Hi Andrey,

Beltsy / Balti: oops... I confused something . Is it true that both AF's were soviet territiry by then?

Also, interesting figures! Nevertheless, 78claims vs. 34losses would be a 2:1 overclaim ratio. I know, Flak should also be taken into account... .

Does anyone know the claims from the VVS side for that timeframe?

[kalender1973]

Originally Posted by Christer Bergström

Definitely! It was the Battle of Iasi. One of the Luftwaffe's last victories in an air battle.

Could Mr. Bergström defined, what is it victory ? More plane shot down ? Air superioty, that allowed the ground forces complete their job ?

[Andrey Dikov]

>Also, interesting figures! Nevertheless, 78claims vs. 34losses would be a 2:1 overclaim ratio. I know, Flak should also be taken into account... .

78/34=2,3

So, if you will really get into account flak losses, my estimation will not be too far from true.

26 by fighters + 8 by flak = 34 would be enough.

Though the ratio figthers/flak losses is estimated for VVS in 1944 as 50%/50% most often.


>Does anyone know the claims from the VVS side for that timeframe?

In period of May 30 - June 8: 398 claims in air combats.

For further details see the article of Dmitriy Khazanov "Battle over Yassy. The defeat of the last Luftwaffe offensive on East", Aviamaster aviation magazine, #4/199, pp. 7-32.

[yogybär]

Cool! I am curious to read that article .

Concerning overclaim:
SG2+JG52 reported 85 losses altogether for teh whole months of June... if one puts this in relation to the 400claims... OK, there were otehr units as well, but these two were the most active...

Feelingwise I'd say that the Luftwaffe was not really able to control the airspace over this battlefield... best indicator for this would be the number of flown missions per day IMHO.

But this is only preliminary feedback, first I read that article, then I know a bit more.

[Dénes Bernád]

Let's not forget that the Rumanians were there, too. After all, the air battle was fought mostly over Rumanian territory!
The ARR fighters claimed several Soviet airplanes on May 30 and 31 (as well as suffered some losses), not mentioning the flak.

Beltsy and Balti refer to the same town. The former is the Russian, while the latter the Rumanian name.

[kalender1973]

Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád

Beltsy and Balti refer to the same town. The former is the Russian, while the latter the Rumanian name.

Balta(with diclination Balty) and the Beltsy is not the same town. Balta is the city in the Odessa distrikt in the Ukrain and Beltsy is the moldavian city 120 km North from capital Chisinau.
Or more then one Balta exist ??