Did Bf109G's use Gunpods during Kursk?

[Ruy Horta]

Friendly advice before we have to end an interesting discussion: lets drop the political side issue before it gets out of hand.

[yogybär]

One reason for supplying Romania with better A/C then Hungary might have been that Romania was more important, and if only because of the petrochemical industry.

Concerning "Nazi": I don't want to overstress the topic, but the word is oversimplifying in this context. You wouldn't call George Bush a Democrat or Mr. Blair a Laborist, when talking about Iraq War, would you?

[George Hopp]

IMHO between the F-4 and G-2, there was only a small difference, but these used F-4's had generally very old engines, with a lot of mechanical problems. I have many details about crashes, crash landings because engine troubles from this period (and the old pilots mentioned me additional ones, which not remained in the documents).

I think that you will find the DB 605 unrivalled in its murder of German pilots, starting with the ace Marseille, and continuing well on into 1943. And, in addition, to catching fire, it could only be run at a maximum of 1.3ata rather than its maximum rated of 1.42ata. And so, these engines were in really, pieces of clapped out junk before they were even installed. DB engines tended to be over-sold and under-developed, and the users paid with their deaths for injuries for this.

[Csaba B. Stenge]

George,

I have many Hungarian G accidents as well, because engine trouble (but the Luftwaffe collected much more sad experiences in this way, of course) But the reliability of these engines is relative. For example the DB 605 and the 601 as well was much more reliable, than the Re 2000's Piaggio radial engine (which type was the standard type of the Hungarian fighters, before the Messers arrived). And the Re 2000 suffered many structural failures as well, which caused a significant number of deadly accidents (like at the Bf 109F-2)

But we are quite far from the genuine question now. BTW among the mules, there were no cannon boats.

[Dénes Bernád]

I double checked the German documents I have related to aircraft handovers to the Hungarian air force.

The first concrete mention of '109F-4s being handed over to the Hungarians is December 1942. However, there is a note about five '109s (no sub-type being given) transferred the previous month. We can safely assume that those were also F-4s.

Therefore, the earliest date of Bf 109F-4 transfers I could find proof of is November 1942. Sadly, there are no details given if any of these were fitted with the underwing gun pod or not.