K.G.V Nightfighter combat losses 23/24 August 1943

[Matheson]

Very well summarized, thank you Brian.

I see now that Arbon and Ashcroft give the time of attack as 03:33 and Schmitter & Graeber of 15/KG 2 who flew from Epinoy that night and give the time of their crash as 03:37 so that seems very clear cut.

The Rad claim seems wrong somehow. They were under the Sandwich CHL which is further south and west than the Foreness CHL flying at Angels 25 and patrolling a vector of 110 degrees (Is this 20 degrees south of east ??) and put on a plane travelling north, so the G81 square reference looks wrong - with one airman baling out My best guess was this was Barzelt & Hartmann of 16/KG 2 who left south of Lille (Vendeville ?) at 01:20 (GMT presumed) to bomb an airfield south of Cambridge but it could equally have been Benner and Reimers also of 16/KG 2.

The claim by Mackinnon and Menlove at 23:22 on 23 Aug could not have been Barzelt and Hartmann, even allowing for the time of 01:20 being German time (00:20 GMT) This was before they had taken off ! There is no description of anyone getting out of the plane. This seems to imply that it was the only other German 410 lost that night - the one of Benner and Reimers.

So if there was a friendly fire incident that night it fell to either Rad and Lovestad or Goodman and Backhouse.

Neither Rad and Lovestad nor Goodman and Backhouse describe any parachutists leaving the planes they had struck - so nothing to distinguish between these two claims in terms of timing or survivors.

So both somewhere out from Dunkirk. Say No to dredging the Goodwin Sands !!!

Given the recent underwater survey off the Normandy beaches revealed 600 potential targets one struggles to imagine how many and what would show up if a similar survey was taken off Dunkirk.

Thanks to all the air historians whose research has helped us to understand and come to terms with these events.

Howard & Lorraine