Moelders vs Galland vs Wick

[Nick Hector]

Would you say that is enough to render the whole practice of matching claims to losses invalid? You have, after all, helped me with some real and valuable corrections here

[robert]

Hi,

same source
9.9.38
1 I-16 from a Spanish squadron. Pilot was killed.
13.9.39
This is very puzzling. According to Soviet sources Moelders attacked alone the entire no.7 squadron of I-16s and he managed to shoot down 3-4 (!) I-16s. Reason of this debacle was that they were all young and inexperienced pilots. Lost aircraft were marked with following numbers: SM-125, SM-154, SM-178 and SM-192. One pilot was killed - Jaime Sau Colom, one was posted MIA and another was wounded. The last pilot - Spanish guy named Aresti - landed at enemy airfield - he stated that it was his first air combat and he became lost.
23.9.39
Most likely he attacked a formation of 6 SB-2 bombers. Between 09.40 and 11.00 hrs the bombers were in action and were attacked by 3 Bf109s. Four out of six bomber`s machine-guns jammed. Before the bombers could be helped by the fighters all three SB-2s of leading section were shot up (totally 100 bullet holes were found). 2 SB-2s were forced down at forward airfields and one of them must be belly-landed. 1 observer was wounded in leg and 1 air gunner in hand.

Robert

[robert]

Hi,

10.10.38
Moelders was a part of formation of six Bf109s, which attacked a group of 24 I-16s, which were protecting a formation of six SB-2s. One I-16 was hit and damaged by Bf109. Spanish pilot was wounded but he managed to nurse his shot-up fighter back to base.

Robert

[Nick Hector]

Originally Posted by robert

Hi,

10.10.38
Moelders was a part of formation of six Bf109s, which attacked a group of 24 I-16s, which were protecting a formation of six SB-2s. One I-16 was hit and damaged by Bf109. Spanish pilot was wounded but he managed to nurse his shot-up fighter back to base.

Robert

Thanks, Robert

Any chance you might have a name of the pilot who made it home? It would be helpful to have that detail if you can provide it

[GMichalski]

hi,

Thank you all for this info,
i need other source and version on the info i have on SCW,
i could add some little info..

23.9.38
SB-2s escort by I-16 from 2ª esc, MGs jammed on four of the SBs and several of the bombers where badly shot-up had to land in fighter bases, but none were lost, aircraft of Boris Stepanovich Sharonov with PT Nechiporenko badly damaged was able to land at Reus and other SB also badly damaged at Valls.

on fighters only what Nick have:

Grupo 21, *, Only one lost seems Margalef , i-16, 3ª esc, KIA

regards

[GMichalski]

19.7.1938
Grupo 21. Day's losses include Eduardo Gonzalez Casola of 1e Esc. KIA, Shugurov Ilya G. (Шугуров Илья Григорьевич) On June 10, 1938 in Spain was a squadron commander of I-16. Made 6 sorties, participated in two air battles. In the evening, July 19, 1938, was mortally wounded in battle Me: c-109 in the El Toro and crashed in the mountains of the Levant. He was buried near the settlement Utiel. The other pilot-16 Eduardo Gonzalez Casola was able to leave the plane, but the parachute was burned and crashed MIA. One I-15 lost probably by anti-aircraft fire. Also Nikolai Romanov Романов Николай Алексеевич) Esc 5ª Moscas wounded but managed to bring and put the damaged aircraft to their base. Explosive bullet wounded him in the leg.
.World War II in September 1941, commanded the 429 th Fighter Regiment. October 18, 1941 was killed in an air battle near the village of Copper Kalinin district of Tver region

[GMichalski]

19.8.38
Very confusing day,

Robert you have:
Three I-16s were shot down (including Wasilij Worobiew and 2 Spanish pilots) and Nikolaj Gierasimow returned with 7 bullet holes but he managed to land safely.

i have:
Grupo 21, *, combat around 11 am dogfight over Ebro river, Vasily Vorobev Fedorovich (оробьёв Василий Фёдорович) got hit in the fuel tank. The plane CM-188 exploded in the air and the pilot died.
[arias1995] in this version the soviet pilot bail out over republican lines.
Santamaria y Tabernero reach the airdrome with many impacts in their aircrafts in Corbera.
Esc 1,4,3,5 i-16 some losses, one bf-109 damaged was seen escape...(only engine smoke?)

[robert]

Originally Posted by GMichalski

hi,

Thank you all for this info,
i need other source and version on the info i have on SCW,
i could add some little info..

23.9.38
SB-2s escort by I-16 from 2ª esc, MGs jammed on four of the SBs and several of the bombers where badly shot-up had to land in fighter bases, but none were lost, aircraft of Boris Stepanovich Sharonov with PT Nechiporenko badly damaged was able to land at Reus and other SB also badly damaged at Valls.

on fighters only what Nick have:

Grupo 21, *, Only one lost seems Margalef , i-16, 3ª esc, KIA

regards

Hi,

I`m using also a book of Abrasow but Russian version (Moskwa 2008).
He wrote that between 13.15 and 14.30 hrs 3 squadrons of I-16, including 1 Soviet squadron, were patrolling over the frontline when they were attacked by 40 Fiat fighters. An air combat ensued and it lasted 25-30 minutes. Lt. Wiktor Zjuzin was posted MIA as well as 3 Spanish pilots were also posted MIA (Francisco Catala Usero, Manuel Vega Gomez and Luis Margalef Vernet). Aircraft of Griciewc was hit in the engine. Two Fiats were claimed as shot down.

Regards

Robert

[robert]

Originally Posted by Nick Hector

Thanks, Robert

Any chance you might have a name of the pilot who made it home? It would be helpful to have that detail if you can provide it

Hi,

sorry no name given.

Regards

Robert

[Nick Hector]

Cheers, Robert

Very grateful in any case. Many thanks