july 1943, Lancasters over north italy

[Laurent Rizzotti]

According to the "Bomber Command war Diaries" by Midddlebrook, the second raid was not on the night of 17-18th, but on the night of 16-17th:

Quote:
"18 Lancasters of 5 Group attempted raids on two more trnasformer stations in Northern Italy. 7 aircraft bombed the Cislago station accurately but the second target was not located and an alternative target was bombed instead. 1 Lancaster lost.

On the night of 17-18, BC only flew four OTU sorties over France.

Now the losses:
On 15-16th: 3 losses/24 bombers
Lancaster III JA679 of 9 Sqn lost over Italy (1 KIA, 6 POW)
Lancaster III DV167 of 50 Sqn lost over Italy (7 KIA)
Lancaster III EE190 of 61 Sqn wrecked while trying to land in Blida, ALgeria (crew OK)

On 16-17th: 2 losses/18 bombers
Lancaster III DV183 of 207 Sqn lost over Italy (6 KIA, 1 POW)
Lancaster III ED538 of 467 Sqn crashed and burned on a North African base (crew unhurt)

Note: losses are higher than the figures of the BC War Diaries, because the latter only considered missing aircraft, not the one wrecked in friendly tereitory.

The interesting part being that these bombers apparently also landed in North Africa.

And then the return, on the night of 24th-25th:
Quote from BC War Diaries: "33 Lancaster of 5 Group returning from North Africa bombed Leghorn docks but the target was covered by haze and bombing was scattered. No aircraft lost"

To have 33 bombers for returning, you have to combine both raids (well, actually according to the above, 37 Lancaster should have been in North Africa).

Hope this helps

[micky]

Thank you Laurent, very interesting source:
"Quote:
"18 Lancasters of 5 Group attempted raids on two more trnasformer stations in Northern Italy. 7 aircraft bombed the Cislago station accurately but the second target was not located and an alternative target was bombed instead. 1 Lancaster lost."

The mean may be taht Reggio Emilia Power Station was bombed by some lanc of 5 Group, but not they from 617 Sqn, and that Reggio was the alternative target, or not?

Thank again

Mick

[micky]

Hi friends, from the Diary of the 467 RAAF squadron:

"15/16-7-1943, Cisliago:
467 Sq sent 5 Lancasters to join a small force attacking the electrical transformer station at Cisliago, and then to fly on to North Africa. F/L Carmichael, “A” Flight Commander, was attacked by a night-fighter which closed to 40 yards. Cannon fire killed the navigator. Sgt A.E. Murray, and damaged most of the maps. The crew reached North Africa without a navigator. F/L Hany Locke’s aircraft was hit by flak and damaged. One fuel tank was holed and, when they reached North Africa, they crash landed out of fuel."

May be the date was wrong, night of 16/17 instead of 15/16, the squadron involved was the 207. Anyone have some data from this squadron? Thanks

Mick

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Murray was not Australian but English: Sgt (Nav.) Eric Anthony Murray (note different order of names) is buried in El Alia cemetery and his death date is given as the 17th of July 1943, so is coherent with a raid on the 16th-17th (the 207 Sqn loss this night took off from UK on 2232 onthe 16th, so the bombing should have taken place in the early hours of the 17th).

Also the 467 Sqn that crash-landed and burned in North Africa on the 16th-17th has the following crew:
F/O H B Locke RAAF
Sgt W G Holt
Sgt H H assall
Sgt F Townsend
Sgt R Butler
Sgt F J Champ
Sgt T Munro

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Confirmed with the ORB of 467 Sqn on line:
http://www.467463raafsquadrons.com/4...3/DSC01600.jpg

The operation was on the night of 16th-17th July.

Detail for each five crew:
http://www.467463raafsquadrons.com/4...3/DSC01621.jpg
http://www.467463raafsquadrons.com/4...3/DSC01622.jpg

The strange part is that there is nothing about the return of the four remaining Lancasters from North Africa in this ORB, at least in July.

[micky]

Thank you Laurent, in exchange, the 417 Squadron ORB is available here:

http://www.dambusters.org.uk/docs/recordbook.pdf

some personal notes: as historical researcher about air war over my town, is a sad thing that reasearching over british planes is more difficult than researching about American planes. Yankees have a lot of online associations, veteran forums, missions summary and a lot of other interesting stuffs. The British side of the matter has ever been more and more difficult, a warm thank to the 12O'clock High forum members to their patience and thier gently

Mick

[Steve49]

I guess the 617 Sqn ORB confirms that the first operation took place during the night 15/16 July. As mentioned in the ORB and in 'Beyond the dams to the Tirpitz' two aircraft suffered minor damage; those flown by F/Lt Munro and F/Lt McCarthy. Acording to the book the bomb-aimer in Munro's aircraft suffered cuts to his face after his panel was hit. He later made a one wheel landing at Blida.

Steve Pegge