Georg-Peter Eder Jet ace confirmation?

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Alfred.MONZAT

Are you sure ? Bader was supposedly shot down by Casson of 616 Squadron.

Yes.

Finucane & co shot down 2 of their own squadron among their 5 victories and their victims were labelled as "shot down by Bf 109s" ? I wonder what specific source(s) the author used to get to this conclusion.

Yes. Comparison of combat reports and other narratives, as well as comparison with German claims and losses. Prety convincing.

Crazy how efficient they were against their own compared against the ennemy. Well back to the subject, claims and losses that don't match, that's not uncommon but I can hardly believe this kind of friendly fire was common.

This is one of the reasons of my doubts concerning GQ6 loss lists. Depending on what one means by common, I have found several such incidents, and one may wonder how many are not identifiable. My wild guess is about 20% to friendly fire.

[Johannes]

Hi Guys

Couldn't remember Bader's victor, but the name Cason I believe is correct, I tend to remember numbers better and thirteen kills for Cason.
The name Finuacane also sounds familiar, if I am remembering correctly he was know as "The Irish ace", and was as bad at over-claiming as Badar.

A pilot of JG5(can't recall name) once stated that JG5 thought it had been abandoned to the North, got second hand aircraft, and over-claimed as a matter of routine just to spite, I think this wound not include I./JG5 and I bet not all pilots over-claimed.


Actually there should be no reason why a Gruppe and especially a staffel should claim so much more than another in the same place and time, lets call then super-staffels, but they exist 9./JG52, 6./JG5 and 5./JG54 to name a few.


Anyway back to Eder, guess we can't take Hermann Buchner's word for his honesty, but his claims don't seem to be too bad...…..do they?


Kind Regards


Johannes

[Nick Hector]

Originally Posted by Johannes

Hi Guys

Couldn't remember Bader's victor, but the name Cason I believe is correct, I tend to remember numbers better and thirteen kills for Cason.
The name Finuacane also sounds familiar, if I am remembering correctly he was know as "The Irish ace", and was as bad at over-claiming as Badar.

A pilot of JG5(can't recall name) once stated that JG5 thought it had been abandoned to the North, got second hand aircraft, and over-claimed as a matter of routine just to spite, I think this wound not include I./JG5 and I bet not all pilots over-claimed.


Actually there should be no reason why a Gruppe and especially a staffel should claim so much more than another in the same place and time, lets call then super-staffels, but they exist 9./JG52, 6./JG5 and 5./JG54 to name a few.


Anyway back to Eder, guess we can't take Hermann Buchner's word for his honesty, but his claims don't seem to be too bad...…..do they?


Kind Regards


Johannes

I am inclined to think he was quite good. It's up to you what you personally make of my claims to losses comparison, but I have definitely seen worse than Eder

[Franek Grabowski]

Hi

Originally Posted by Johannes

Couldn't remember Bader's victor, but the name Cason I believe is correct, I tend to remember numbers better and thirteen kills for Cason.
The name Finuacane also sounds familiar, if I am remembering correctly he was know as "The Irish ace", and was as bad at over-claiming as Badar.

Buck Casson, already mentioned in the thread.
Paddy Finucane was indeed Irish, and a leading RAF ace of 1941-42 period. I have seen a comment by an airman, that it was claimed he filed bogus claims, but I am very cautious with such statements. Our knowledge on German acitivities in the period is limited to say the least, and we cannot say for sure if enemies of Bader or Finucane escaped unscathed, damaged or were shot down. I recall a case of another rather well known pilot, who claimed to force watery land a German flying boat and then to destroy it on the water - this is not reflected on the German loss lists.

A pilot of JG5(can't recall name) once stated that JG5 thought it had been abandoned to the North, got second hand aircraft, and over-claimed as a matter of routine just to spite, I think this wound not include I./JG5 and I bet not all pilots over-claimed.

The pilot in question IIRC claimed he was in a combat with several aircraft, but actually there was only a single aircraft on landing pattern I think. This is not exactly on overclaim, when in the heat of the combat pilot makes inaccurate assessment of the enemy's damage.

Actually there should be no reason why a Gruppe and especially a staffel should claim so much more than another in the same place and time, lets call then super-staffels, but they exist 9./JG52, 6./JG5 and 5./JG54 to name a few.

Actually, there could be a reason, but it may not transpire from sheer numbers. It is a matter of opportunity, experience of pilots and leadership. Look for example at the Polish No 302 and No 303 Sqns during the BoB. The former spend the time in the north of England and far and away from combat, the latter was in the heat of the battle. Their scores were markedly different. Also No 315 Sqn, under the leadership of S/L Horbaczewski took the lead in the PAF, as noted by pilots, die to his keenness and will for combat. This phenomena is visible between the Polish Squadrons in various periods.
On the other hand I have seen comments that certain pilots may have been favoured for various reasons and send to intercept the enemy in the first place. Obviously this reflected on their score.
So, it is entirely possible that some units fared much better, but it would require a much more in depth research in particular units, and it would be a hectic job now.

Best regards

Franek