Galland's victories: Reply to Laurent Rizzotti - About translations, in particular of aviation books

[Ruy Horta]

Ah, my friend Yves.
If only I had not banned him...

[rof120]

… you'd have been a lot more clever my friend.

All right, you were very young and didn't think of it. Perhaps God will forgive you?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Yves

No idea how many books the two individuals Toliver/Constable wrote named Fighter General The life of Adolf Galland, but my edition is from 1990 and was published by AmPress Publishing Inc.

Since you obviously hold your 1999 Schiffer book in high esteem I have to confess I do the absolute opposite regarding my 1990 version. It is unfortunately a very typical book written by two typical American authors. At least looking in the book I have, do you really think Adolf Galland would have resorted to novel like drama with actual conversations inserted? I also doubt very much Galland needed anyone to ghost write his own story 36 years after he had written his own book, and I doubt even more he would resort to such cheap "tricks".
Anyway both you and the two authors obviously share the same admiration for the late General.

I don't have the "original" German edition published in 1992, but since you for some reason believe this 1992 edition outrank the year 1990 edition, perhaps we should compare the two books, line by line, so we can be certain the German book is not a translation?

Since my 1990 issue does not have any date for his claims during Operation Paula (the date mentioned is only when Dunkirk fell, June 4th and it looks like the authors believe Op Paula began sometime after that date....), I presume the German issue did correct that fault, right?...
Hopefully they also corrected all the other faults in the book which the authors must have added from Galland's original script...

Looking at your blog, you obviously met Galland at least once, so I take it you have checked his log book (or other documentation) and can confirm you have seen the date in his papers! Perhaps you were even allowed to photograph it? Since Galland obviously must have had at least some documents back in 1954 to remember exactly what he did on June 3rd (and not 9th) I suggest you produce what you have to make you so sure his stated date is correct, otherwise we can go on forever, believing either in Galland or the main Luftwaffe researchers who all insist the date was June 9th.

At this point, I'm afraid, all you do is to repeat the same thing over and over again without producing any evidence, except the original version of Galland's book from 1954.

Cheers
Stig

[rof120]

Reply to Stig

SORRY for the green grinning head. I don't want it but can't delete it.

SJ: No idea how many books the two individuals Toliver/Constable wrote named Fighter General The life of Adolf Galland, but my edition is from 1990 and was published by AmPress Publishing Inc.

-Just det Stig, det är riktigt… er, sorry: Exactly Stig, this is correct. The book you mentioned was precisely what Galland couldn't stand because it was full of errors and he felt compelled to re-write it entirely. His new version was released 1992, the authors remaining the same (apparently), probably because of some contract(s) and legal factors. Same thing for the 1999 sequel.

SJ: Since you obviously hold your 1999 Schiffer book in high esteem

rof120: Inte alls, icke. Sorry: Not at all. I just mentioned its existence.

SJ: I have to confess I do the absolute opposite regarding my 1990 version. It is unfortunately a very typical book written by two typical American authors. At least looking in the book I have, do you really think Adolf Galland would have resorted to novel like drama with actual conversations inserted? I also doubt very much Galland needed anyone to ghost write his own story 36 years after he had written his own book, and I doubt even more he would resort to such cheap "tricks".

- Regrettably I never saw this 1990 book. IIRC it disappeared quickly and you could not purchase a copy. Add the fact that I learned of it belatedly, too late. So I can't have any opinion on it but the fact that Galland rewrote it entirely speaks for itself.

SJ: Anyway both you and the two authors obviously share the same admiration for the late General.

- My admiration is purely rational. Galland is NOT "my hero", the man I like and admire most. I highly respect his bravery and his feats, that's all. I like his humour including when he is at the receiving end of his own humour or mockery, which often is considered the highest quality of humour (I agree). His very high position within the Luftwaffe doesn't impress me (not others either). I feel if he had been allowed to fight all the way until Nazi Germany was defeated he probably would have been killed in action for he was clearly too combat-eager and too aggressive, which sooner or later would have cost his life, rather sooner, as the events on June 21, 1941 clearly show. He very nearly was killed and on two occasions during this day. He simply could have been killed outright in his cockpit by cannon-fire. Only luck kept him alive.

SJ: I don't have the "original" German edition published in 1992, but since you for some reason believe this 1992 edition outrank the year 1990 edition, perhaps we should compare the two books, line by line, so we can be certain the German book is not a translation?

- I don't have the 1990 T-C book and I would feel such an effort wouldn't make any sense - without wanting to antagonize you - for I am positive that Galland didn't like the 1990 version at all, which is why he re-wrote it entirely in a hospital bed after heavy heart surgery. I think the 1992 German editon is still available (officially the authors are T-C), on the Internet in any case. Publishers are Herbig.

But if you have a copy each of both the 1990 and 1999 English editions you can make this comparison easily, this is your private pleasure. Var inte arg Stig, jag skojar bara (Don't be angry, just joking.)

SJ: Since my 1990 issue does not have any date for his claims during Operation Paula (the date mentioned is only when Dunkirk fell, June 4th and it looks like the authors believe Op Paula began sometime after that date....), I presume the German issue did correct that fault, right?...

- Nope, too bad. "Operation Paula" is mentioned four times in the two last paragraphs of page 66, Galland's participation is mentioned too with the usual details on collision damage suffered by his 109. It is fully possible that Galland simply forgot to add the missing date - June 3 - or grumpily considered it was unnecessary to add it for everybody knows anyway. We should not forget that he recently had had heart surgery… Rewriting a whole, complex book under such circumstances could be his greatest exploit ever but especially then the oversight of a missing date could easily happen. In any case his victories during Operation "Paula" are more or less mentioned here too, one of them very clearly, explicitely.

SJ: Hopefully they also corrected all the other faults in the book which the authors must have added from Galland's original script…

- Script and talks. I suspect that they did not record what he was saying but wrote, later, from memory, mixing up various things and forgetting others.

SJ: Looking at your blog, you obviously met Galland at least once, so I take it you have checked his log book (or other documentation) and can confirm you have seen the date in his papers! Perhaps you were even allowed to photograph it? Since Galland obviously must have had at least some documents back in 1954 to remember exactly what he did on June 3rd (and not 9th) I suggest you produce what you have to make you so sure his stated date is correct, otherwise we can go on forever, believing either in Galland or the main Luftwaffe researchers who all insist the date was June 9th.

- Unfortunately I never even as much as saw his logbook nor other relevant documents. At the time - in the 1980s, which is 30-40 years ago - such things were not as eagerly sought-after as they are today. If they had been there is no doubt that I would have asked to see them and that permission would have been granted to me. I never even thought of it. I had no reason to have any doubts.

SJ: At this point, I'm afraid, all you do is to repeat the same thing over and over again without producing any evidence, except the original version of Galland's book from 1954.

- Not quite. I started this new thread because I had unearthed my copy of the last Galland-book in English signed by T-C but written by Galland. This was a NEW element in my demonstration.

To sum up, let us say that Galland gave his version (victories on June 3, 1940) in the first edition of his first book and that he never changed this version but confirmed it in writing several times. It can't be coincidental because, for example 1985, he drew up the list of his 14 first victories with details of time and location, had this list typed and checked it for typos after it was typed.

What do we need more as evidence? Millions of statements made by historians have about one thousand times less solid evidence.

Sorry guys, I have to pause for a while now. Lots of paperwork. Tax office wants to eat me. I'm very scared.

PS: when I started the first thread on Galland's victories I genuinely hoped that somebody, or several ones, would shed light on this question but I was wrong. I have been owning the corresponding books for about 15-20 years.

"Cheers
Stig"

[Stig Jarlevik]

Dear Yves

Not sure why you imply you are Swedish fluent. Has it anything to do with the topic or are you just trying to show off?

Neither do I understand why you call me variously with SJ, ST and JP nor why you sign your message with "Cheers Stig"

You say you have no admiration as such for Galland. Well starting three different messages with basically the same topic, to prove Galland claimed two victories on June 3rd instead of June 9th is perhaps more to be sorted under obsession than admiration, but let us not delve into psychology since it would be to stray outside the topic itself.

The interesting point is that you for some reason seems to have every issue of every major translation made by Galland's books. Just so I am not missing something can you please scan two perhaps even three pages from the 1992 German edition of the T-C book so I can personally satisfy myself it is completely re-written by Galland. Perhaps you also have something in writing which confirm that? Quite frankly I have never come across anyone before who collects every translation made of a book by any individual. Obsession? Sorry, we should leave that out of the picture....

Am I correct in interpreting your answer that only the German edition of "Fighter General" is edited/re-written by Galland and that the 1999 Schiffer edition is simply a re-print of the 1990 original AmPress edition? Since you have mentioned the Schiffer book at least twice in your three messages I must wonder in such a case why you never mentioned the original book from 1990 called "Fighter General"?

This re-writing done by Galland is intriguing. It is quite unusual, I think, since I have never come across that before. That books are edited when translated, yes indeed, but that usually is by footnotes. Changing any text would in fact be a legal issue, so I take it the German publisher do have some kind of legal document saying the two American authors agreed to that? Since you must have seen that, I take it you have some kind of copy (or can produce one), so we all can see that?

Even more interesting to me is that the main topic of your messages (the two claims from June 3rd) was not edited into the 1992 German edition. That could hardly have been any problem for Galland, since after all, all he needed to do was to look in his first book, it is all there!

It is interesting you state you have actually no evidence of any of Galland's victories, but you obviously have a list written (by him ?) in 1985, presumably giving all his claims and not only his first 14? Whatever, can we have a scan of that please? So far I have never seen a claim list made out by the late General himself, so it would be very interesting for everyone here on TOCH to see it.

Finally I have to direct my apologies to all TOCH members for being so wordy, but I am fascinated by the whole situation.
Yves, so far you have not produced a single evidence that Galland was correct. Everything you bring up could easily be dismissed as heresay.
Don't you think it is time you produce something useful, both for me (as a strict amateur) and for all others, some at least who can be called semi-professionals? I am sure they are as interested as I am.

Cheers
Stig

[edwest2]

The 1992 book published by Herbig Verlag is still available.

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-sear...vor-constable/

Usual disclaimer,
Ed