John C. Dundas

[Christer Bergström]

Originally Posted by Graham Boak

It is better to say that it was soon assumed that Dundas shot down Wick. There have been other suggestions made in recent years, that a more junior pilot was responsible. I'm sorry, I didn't keep any reference to it.

Indeed. This case is subject to a thoroughgoing analyse, covering an entire chapter, in my book "Luftstrid över Kanalen"/"Battle over Britain". (See link below.) Many records and eye-witness accounts from both sides are presented to form a final conclusion. Please allow me to save this until my book is published.

[CJE]

To Goos

A DFC or DSO was NEVER awarded posthumously, unlike the VC.
It's just because it was "gazetted" after his death (actually gazetted on 07.01.41).

[Goos 'TMG' Hageman]

CJE
The article states is was the bar to his DSC that was posthumely awarded, not the DFC. I do not know if your remark on the posthumely awarded DFC also applies to the bar. Well, it is not of great interest, I just quoted the message on the Dundas website. I asume that will not be wrong.
Goos

[Graham Boak]

Perhaps a false assumption. A bar is just the second award of a medal, and the same rules apply. The VC is the only medal which can be awarded posthumously, as far as I am aware. perhaps unfair, but there it is.

[CJE]

Graham,
It's a right assumption, a bar is a second (or even third in some cases) award of a DFM, DFC or DSO.
None of them are awarded posthumously.
It's just a question of time between the award and the publication in the London Gazette.

[Graham Boak]

Sorry CJE, perhaps I should have been clearer. I was referring to the assumption that the Dundas website would not be wrong. That is a false assumption.

[CJE]

It's probably because they are not aware of how things worked.
It doesn't change anything now, but had he been still alive then, he would have had his bar anyway.

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Christer Bergström

Indeed. This case is subject to a thoroughgoing analyse, covering an entire chapter, in my book "Luftstrid över Kanalen"/"Battle over Britain". (See link below.) Many records and eye-witness accounts from both sides are presented to form a final conclusion. Please allow me to save this until my book is published.

Actually, this was a subject of my article published in Polish Model Hobby magazine. I have quoted there most important accounts of Fiby and Meimberg as well as of Ogilvie and Marrs. I have more stuff that I was unable to put in, including some non published stuff. Anyway, the conclusion is clear and obvious - Dundas could not have downed Wick, the latter being most likely damaged by Marrs and then finished off by Klein, both very experienced but now forgotten pilots. My article includes several photos of Wick's aircraft, as well as a beautiful shot of his last victim, 152 Sqn's Spitfire.

[CJE]

Franek,
Would you be kind enough to contact me off-line at this address:
cje.01@wanadoo.fr
Thanks.

[Christer Bergström]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

Actually, this was a subject of my article published in Polish Model Hobby magazine. I have quoted there most important accounts of Fiby and Meimberg as well as of Ogilvie and Marrs. I have more stuff that I was unable to put in, including some non published stuff. Anyway, the conclusion is clear and obvious - Dundas could not have downed Wick, the latter being most likely damaged by Marrs and then finished off by Klein, both very experienced but now forgotten pilots. My article includes several photos of Wick's aircraft, as well as a beautiful shot of his last victim, 152 Sqn's Spitfire.

It seems as though we have used the same sources. I assume you have used the ORBs and Combat Reports at National Archive too? Let's see if we have arrived at the same conclusion. . .

Unfortunately I don't read Polish, and since I assume your knowledge in Polish is on about the same level as my Polish, maybe we'll have to wait until the English edition of my book is published. The Swedish is scheduled to be published next month. The English edition was planned for December, but today I heard from the publisher that the translator might not be able to finish it in time for a December publication, so early 2007 is more likely for the publishing of the English edition.