DB601A-1 = Aa ??

[olefebvre]

Originally Posted by Shikhov

Thanks a lot especially to Mark & Kurfurst for very interesting info.

But seems too early to make a final conclusion what was the 601Aa.
I'm completely satisfied of 601Aa installation on Bf109E-7 detailed example.
Quite strange plane - used Arado E-1 airframe (3380-3664 block) and equipped with rare enough Aa engine produced 3 years before.
Great example, but may be exist some more?

As far as I understand 1168 is the total Aa/Ba number were produced. Some of them were installed on Swiss and Jugoslavian Emils (153), may be some Do215B were also equipped. Abt. 1000 of rest DB601Aa were on LW hands.
Therefore a figure apeared 1000/4000 E = ~ 1/4 (like Olivier already showed).

Many thanks to Kurfurst for work and new documents - DASA sheets for DB601A-0, A-1, Aa, N. But new question was born - when tables was printed ? It seems in same time no later then mid of 1939.
Please compare with Auszuege aus Fl.datenblatt Bf109E-1, E-3 nach L.Dv.556/3 powercurves (p.22) and Tabelle.
DB601A in Dec.1939 in their final condition was enough different as if for 1937.

From another side as we can see DB601Aa really developed since 1936 and therefore no matter for auslandisch version of A-1 can't be at the time.

Paid attantion for more point:
DB601N offer too little performance growth compare with DB601Aa for
30-min settings:
Aa at 1,27 ata 1050 hp (4100 m) in manuals for foreign cust. 1025 (4200 m)
N at 1,35 ata 1050 hp (4800 - 4900 m)
I can't see difference and any reason for using highly expensive (5 times) and available in small quantity at the time 100 octane C-fuel if LW has on hands so powerfull and reliable engine as DB601Aa.

Seems something wrong in this story.

All the best.

Igor.

I don't believe the Luftwaffe intended to use the 601Aa in the 109 at first, it seems really associated with the introduction of bomb carrying 109. The reason being the increased power output of the take-off rating.

You correctly underlined the few differences between the Aa and the N, and indeed the differences are not that important. Keep in mind that the E-7 which was basically an E-4/B with droptank support was intended to use the DB601N at first. Yet the DB601N proved problem prone, and it's production was at first very slow. So i believe the introduction of the Aa on the /B and E-7 ac was a quick expedient to replace the DB601N until it proved reliable and could be really mass produced.
There were few 109 really equipped with DB601N engines, they simply did not provide any significant advantage at the time. With the introduction of the higher performance blower when the Friedrich entered production, then it provided an advantage.
I'm currently waiting for some DB601N document from the DB archives, i'll let you know of further development in that area.

[Shikhov]

Dear Olivier
Thanks for reply above and hoped you let me known your further investigation in mentioned area.
BoB is not my main interest but of couse I can't ignored a Battle and a fact that two differently engined Emil mod. in summer 1940 Luftwaffe were used. Their performance differed not much but can be counted simply using only cube root of power.

Probably this discussion is mainly over.
I'd like only ask you abt. your upper mentioned notice, that Russians tested in 1940 Emils equipped DB601A-1.
Is this determined thing?
I only know planes W.Nr - 2734, 2738 (2650-2730 block), but not their manufacturer and engines ser. No.

Best regards

Igor

[olefebvre]

I know at least one of the engine Wknr and it's definitely an A-1 they got.

Cheers,
Olivier

[Shikhov]

W.Nrs from flight tested above mentioned Emils during June 10-18 1940 trials ?
You mean russians don't recognized a less powered but higher altitude rated version of DB601A ?
If for 30-min. rating Aa : 4100 - 4200 m, but for A-1 at same rating 4500 m and sometimes
(R.Kosin or Italian RA 1000 RC 41-I data) noted as 5000 m for 30-min setting, how the russians
can measured 550 at 4450 m (even in one sourse mentioned 4640 m and I don't believed them)?
Seems Soviet NII VVS believed in 601Aa version.

Also may be you could explain me a photo of DB601A Nr.11366= and drawing of DB601A Nr.11266= widely used. What planes and places it was made?

Seems you have simply answers for my stupid questions.

Thanks in advance.

Igor.

[Shikhov]

Originally Posted by markjsheppard

Shikov

DB601 A
W.Nr11120
Werke 90 Berlin Marienfelde
Top casting 601-102-001b also 3205-4
Date casting on the block of 14.4.39

The is a DB601Aa not a standard A-1 engine, it's part of lot of 1168
DB601Aa/Ba engines running in the 10500-11500 block built from mid 38 to
late 39/early 40.

MS

I've compare above mentioned markings with engine mounted on He 111P-2 W.Nr 1528 downed in 27.4.40 fouded and restored in Norway.
(My special interest as He 111 P-0, P-1, P-2 used DB601Aa)
The engine reported as DB601A-1.
W.Nr 10354
other markings is:
M71AA1A
18.3.38
600 100 0011
3205-A
601 301 000

At least one same code in both engines, I mean 3205-A.

One question more:

Seems every DB engine modification has 7-digit code:
DB601Aa 9-601-2159
DB601E 9-601-2245

Could sombody clear or cooment ?
Especially awaited Olifebvre point of view.

Thanks in advance.

Igor

[olefebvre]

It's possible the 10354 engine was originally an A-0 upgraded to A-1 when overhauled, indeed 10343 was an early A engine used as test engine for the Aa series.

IIRC 3205-A should be the metal alloy the casing is made of.

The 9-601-2159 and 9-601-2245 are just document references, both parts and fundamental documents such as output charts were so indexed.

[Shikhov]

Thanks olefebvre.
All seems clear.

Another point: markjsheppard reported above E-7 W.Nr 3523 was lost
after airfight dared April 4 1942.
According to SIG site research two pilots from 5./JG 5 were actually WIA
this date. But W.Nr 3523 was 100% lost a day before - April 3 due to
engine failure.
My question is: Does anybody seen E-7 W.Nr 3523 board manufacturer table? I mean table is still as for Arado Bf109E-1 ?

[markjsheppard]

Igor

The records might have started engine filure but it was actually from air combat (We have the Russian report).

I have a picture of the plate which is still Arado E-1 Iit had not been overstamped E-7), but the engine was with additional oil tank as the E-7.

Might have been the 3rd April. At work so cannot varify. Have a log bookm relating to the day of the loss as well from another pilot.

Drop me you email on the rivate messages and I will send you a picture of the engine/data plate.
regards

Mark

[Shikhov]

Mark, thanks a lot.
Very nice information.
I could't to attain any info in Russia.

P.S. and of course 3523 has MG-FF/M in its wing ?

All the best.

Igor.