Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

[Hohentwiel]

Hello,

I think your dad told about the island Helgoland.
I found some interesting stuff in the net:

At Helgoland I've found some units:
- Marine-Flak-Abteilung 242 (under control of German Navy),
- Flugplatzkommando A 8/XI (? - April 1944)
- Jagdstaffel Helgoland
All of this units used FlaK I think.


Marine-Flak-Abteilung 242

Formed 8.26.39 on Helgoland with 4 companies, 1940, 5 companies
(5. from 1./213). 1944, 7 batteries (1-6, 8 ).

Subordinated to Küstenbefehlshaber Ostfriesland,
later Deutsche Bucht, and from 9.44 Seekdt. Elbe-Weser.

Commanders:
August 1939 Kapitänleutnant Troll
März 1940 Korvettenkapitän M.A. Hermann Weber
September 1942 Korvettenkapitän M.A. Dr. Titzck
Oktober 1943 Fregattenkapitän Erwin Schneider

Armament in 1938:

Battery VON SCHRÖDER (MAA 112):
3 x 30,5 cm S.K. L/50 (range 32 km)
2 x 2 cm C/30
Battery JACOBSEN:
3 x 17 cm
2 x 15 cm L/45 illumination guns
Battery FALM:
4 x 10,5 cm AA
Battery NYASSA, later NORDSPITZE:
4 x 8,8 cm AA
Battery TANGANJIKA, later WESTKLIPPE:
2 x 10,5 cm AA
Battery DÜNE:
4 x 10,5 cm AA
Moreover:
2 x 3,7 cm M.K.
1 x 3,7 cm S.K.
2 x 2 cm C/30

Most of the elderly, heavy AA guns were changed against
modern guns at the outbreak of war.

Final armament:

Battery VON SCHRÖDER, manned by MAA112:
3 x 30,5 cm S.K. L/50 (range 32 km)
1 x 15 cm illumination gun
1 x 3,7 cm AA
1 x 2 cm quadrouble AA
1 x 2 cm AA
Directed by 1 FuMO214 Würzburg-Riese and 5 (?) more devices

Battery NYASSA, later NORDSPITZE, manney by 3./MFlaA242:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
Directed by 1 FuMG201 since 1944
In 1945 it was planned to mount 4 x 12,8 cm AA additionally

Battery JACOBSEN:
3 x 17 cm S.K. L/40 (range 20 km)
1 x 15 cm illumination gun
1 x 3,7 cm AA
1 x 2 cm Oerlikon AA
Directed by 1 FuMO214 Würzburg-Riese and 1 more device

Battery FALM, manned by 2./MFlaA242:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
4 x 12,8 cm AA in two double mountings since 1945
Directed by 1 FuMO Würzburg D

Battery TANGANJIKA, later WESTKLIPPE, manned by 4./MFlaA242:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
Directed bý 1 FuMO Würzburg D

Battery HAFEN:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
1 x 3,7 cm AA
1 x 2 cm quadrouble AA
3 x 2 cm double AA
2 x 2 cm AA
2 x 1,5 cm AA

Battery MOLE:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
Mounted on 17.03.1945

On the moles:
1 x 3,7 cm AA
2 x 2 cm AA
6 x 7,3 cm Föhn AA rocket launchers

Uboat-Bunker:
3 x 3,7 cm AA
2 x 2 xm AA
1 FuMO Seetakt

Northeast area:
2 x 7,5 cm
1 x 3,7 cm AA
1 x 2 cm

Radar equippment:
3 early DeTe-devices, later replaced by FuMG80 Freya
4 Würzburg D - devices
1 FuMO201
1 Wassermann
2 or 3 FuMO214 Würzburg-Riese
Unknown number of FuMO3, 5 and 11 Seetakt-devices

Dune:

Battery WITTEKLIFF:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
Only until 13.01.1945 and replaced by

Battery AADE:
4 x 7,5 cm AT guns
Mounted on 24.01.1945

Battery DÜNE:
4 x 7,5 cm

Moreover:
4 x 12,8 cm AA since 1944
3 x 3,7 cm AA
1 x 2 cm quadrouble AA
3 x 2 cm
1 Würzburg D


Jagdstaffel Helgoland

Staffelkapitäne:
Olt. Hermann Hintzen, 10.4.43 - 6.43
Olt. Hermann Behrend, 6.43 - 5.7.43
Lt. Erich Hondt, 5.7.43 - 17.8.43
Olt. Erich Bartels, 8.43 - 9.43
Olt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig, 9.43 - 11.43

Formed 10.4.43 in Helgoland
On 30.11.43 redesignated 11./JG11.

Bases:
4.43 - 4.10.43 Helgoland


Flugplatzkommando A 8/XI

I found no more informations.


I hope that helps a little bid.
Maybe some other people can help too.

Sven.

[bulldog]

Hi,
You can find excellent photos and info on thirdreichruins.com
The site also offers other excellent information on various Third reich locations, plus links.
Regards Bulldog.

[ChrisMAg2]

Originally Posted by Hohentwiel

...
Marine-Flak-Abteilung 242
...
Battery VON SCHRÖDER (MAA 112):
3 x 30,5 cm S.K. L/50 (range 32 km)
...

Believe it or not, one of these guns has atleast one verified kill of an allied bomber. Althogh these are not realy FlaK guns, but "Küstenartillerie".

And

Flugplatzkommando A 8/XI

means to say this airfield unit is assigned to Luftgau XI (Hamburg).

[Hohentwiel]

Originally Posted by ChrisMAg2

means to say this airfield unit is assigned to Luftgau XI (Hamburg).

That's right. Flugplatzkommando A 8/XI was part
of the Flughafen-Bereichs-Kommando 3/XI in Schleswig.
The units were all in Northern Germany, Schleswig-Holstein
and the islands. Source is the famous side www.ww2.dk. in this case.

Units:
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur Schleswig
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur Husum
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur Westerland
-----------------------------------------
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur E 2/XI in Husum [4.41? - 9.43]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur E 6/XI in Schleswig-Land [6.39 - 8.41]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur E 7/XI in Hohenaspe [6.39 - 4.41]
Flugplatzkommando A 1/XI in Hamburg-Fuhlsbüttel [2.43 - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 2/XI in Neumünster [? - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 8/XI on Helgoland [? - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 18/XI in Leck [? - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 20/XI in Flensburg [? - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 21/XI in Uetersen [2.43 - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 55/XI in Grossenbrode [2.43 - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 90/XI in Kaltenkirchen [2.43 - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando B 103/XI (See) in Tönning [2.41 - 4.43]
Flugplatzkommando B 104/XI (See) in Rantum [2.41 - 4.43]
Flugplatzkommando B 105/XI (See) in Hörnum [? - 5.45]
Flugplatzkommando D 108/XI (See) in Schleswig [? - 5.45]
Flugplatzkommando A 133/XI in Husum [9.43 - 4.44]
-----------------------------------------
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 1/XI in Westerland [4.44 - 5.45]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 2/XI in Leck [4.44 - 5.45]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 3/XI in Husum [4.44 - 5.45]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 4/XI in Schleswig-Land [4.44 - 5.45]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 5/XI in Lübeck-Blankensee [4.44 - 10.44 & 3.45 - 5.45]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 6/XI in Uetersen [4.44 - 10.44 & 3.45 - 5.45]
Flugplatzkommando B 108/XI (See) in Schleswig-See

[ChrisMAg2]

Ok, If Luftgau XI is the district of choice, these are the major Flak units from '41-4/45
(acc. to http://www.ww2.dk/ground/hq/lgxi.htm):

• 3. Flak-Division in Hamburg [9.41 - 4.45]
• 8. Flak-Division in Bremen [9.41 - 4.45]
• 8. Flak-Brigade in Oldenburg/Hannover/Wismar [2.41 - 3.45]
• 15. Flak-Brigade in Hannover-Burgdorf [6.42 - 4.44]

[SES]

Originally Posted by ChrisMAg2

Believe it or not, one of these guns has atleast one verified kill of an allied bomber. Althogh these are not realy FlaK guns, but "Küstenartillerie".

Hi Chris,
The 38 cm guns in Hanstholm also had a Flak capability and role - with radar control by a W-R.
bregds
SES

[ChrisMAg2]

Michael,
but -seriously- Fla (with or without radar guidance) was not their main objective, not?

[SES]

Hi Chris,
No they were a costal battery, Flak was a secondary function, but imagine sitting in a B-17/24 and get in the way of a 800 kg grenade.
bregds
SES

[mightythor99]

they were not just for firing at ships and defending from the water, they were very active at shooting down aircraft. they were responsible for shooting down many allied bombers.
what you have to keep in mind, is that these guys were the very first guys to see the incoming bombers,................ they had guys in boats, with radios, who called the shore batteries when aircraft were spotted, and they sounded the alarm. then the gunners ran to their guns, and got ready to fire. the bombers are going 250-300 mph, so the guys only had a few minutes to get ready to fire. then the allied bombers were farther inside europe, and they were radio'ed in, and tracked by the next sets of flak guys,..........and so on. the routes were pretty straight forward, most of the time, so they had a good idea where they were headed, by what direction they were heading.
i have lots of photos of these units, and the one that comes to mind for me, is a marine coastal battery, stationed at texel. they have 8-10 rings painted on their cannon, and plenty of pictures of shot down planes, dead air crew, etc.
the german anti aircraft guns were pretty accurate, and they shot down plenty of bombers.....................it's just that there WERE plenty of targets..........more then they could handle.

[mightythor99]

is that the germans moved flak units around sometimes. in '44 and '45, they moved some of the better units/more accurate firing units to more key locations. there are always flak guns around their aircraft bases also, that is standard operating procedures.
these more accurate firing units made a little bit of difference, but the swarms of allied bombers overhead made it pretty much a wash. what good is getting 10 bombers shot down,....out of 300, or 500 of them flying overhead. air superiority was key to beating the germans. that was the icing on the cake,....besides being attacked from all sides..........