JG information needed

[Andreas Brekken]

Originally Posted by vzlion

Hi Andreas,

A little bit off the subject, but could you please explain the damaged/destroyed
catagories you used. I haven't seen any like them before. Thanks,

Walt

Hi.

The Summarische Verlustemeldungen were reports made out that summarized the losses for a given unit in a spreadsheet-like report. These consisted of two types of sheets, one for the aircraft losses, and one for the personnel losses. Please see the images below.

http://www.ahs.no/discussion_images/...1 Seite 02.jpg

http://www.ahs.no/discussion_images/...3 Seite 01.jpg

I have entered these in my database, and as my website has several language options, I have also translated the categories used, the original german ones shown below with the english translation:

1
durch Feindeinwirkung vermißt
Missing due to enemy action

2
durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Flakbeschuß total
Destroyed by anti-aircraft artillery on operational flight

3
durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Flakbeschuß beschädigt
Damaged by anti-aircraft artillery on operational flight

4
durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Bordwaffenbeschuß total mit Feindbeobachtung
Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, observed by enemy

5
durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Bordwaffenbeschuß total ohne Feindbeobachtung
Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, not observed by enemy

6
durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Bordwaffenbeschuß beschädigt mit Feindbeobachtung
Damaged by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, observed by enemy

7
durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Bordwaffenbeschuß beschädigt ohne Feindbeobachtung
Damaged by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, not observed by enemy

8
durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Infanteriebeschuß total
Destroyed by gunfire from enemy infantry on operational flight

9
durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Infanteriebeschuß beschädigt
Damaged by gunfire from enemy infantry on operational flight

10
durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Bombenabwurf total
Destroyed on the ground by enemy bomb

11
durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Bombenabwurf
beschädigt Damaged on the ground by enemy bomb

12
durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Bordwaffenbeschuß total
Destroyed on the ground by gunfire from enemy aircraft

13
durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Bordwaffenbeschuß beschädigt
Damaged on the ground by gunfire from enemy aircraft

14
durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Erdbeschuß
total Destroyed on the ground by enemy gunfire from ground forces

15
durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Erdbeschuß beschädigt
Damaged on the ground by enemy gunfire from ground forces

16
durch Feindeinwirkung Sonstige total
Destroyed by other enemy action

17
durch Feindeinwirkung Sonstige beschädigt
Damaged by other enemy action

18
insgesamt durch Feindeinwirkung total
Total number of aircraft destroyed by enemy action

19 insgesamt durch Feindeinwirkung beschädigt
Total number of aircraft damaged by enemy action

20
ohne Feindeinwirkung mit Feindauftrag total
Destroyed without enemy action on operational flight

21
ohne Feindeinwirkung mit Feindauftrag beschädigt
Damaged without enemy action on operational flight

22
ohne Feindeinwirkung ohne Feindauftrag (Betriebsverluste) total
Destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight

23
ohne Feindeinwirkung ohne Feindauftrag (Betriebsverluste) beschädigt
Damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight

24
insgesamt ohne Feindeinwirkung total
Total number of aircraft destroyed without enemy action

25
insgesamt ohne Feindeinwirkung beschädigt
Total number of aircraft damaged without enemy action

I used the english translation in my previous post.

Regards,
Andreas

[Franek Grabowski]

Andreas, looks outstanding. What is the completness and coverage of those reports? Also, 50% overclaim is something about average for intense scraps.

[Andreas Brekken]

Coverage:
All units reporting to the GenQu 6 Abt under the designation Fliegende Verbände. Thus all frontline units and several others in duty at the front.

Timespan:
21.06.1941 through January 1945.

Regards,
Andreas

[RT]

Those docs are also available for april 40 campaign nd French-campaign 40,

remi

[vzlion]

Thank you very much. Very complete explination. Thank you for the explination and the posting.

Walt

[vzlion]

Hi Andreas,

Very informative. Please accept my apoligies for being so long in thanking you. I have to admit that I completely forgot this thread. Again, a belated thanks.

Walt

[Franek Grabowski]

Andreas
Have you compared those data against individual loss returns?

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Franek.

Yes I have. They are mostly one to one if no clerical error is involved.

I mostly use the Summarische Verlustemeldungen to get a brief overview of what losses a unit has sustained, what losses were recorded on a specific date or in a specific period of time, see for example screenshot below, where search criteria is losses for JG 5 between 01.10.1943 and 31.10.1943:



In my database all summary losses can be connected to a detailed loss record, and the script will then change the background color of the number of aircraft column and making this into a link that will show the appropriate loss when clicked on. Here they are blue, indicating that the corresponding detailed loss information is available in the database.

I have also used the records to make statistical overviews of losses.

Regards,
Andreas

[Franek Grabowski]

Hello Andreas
So I understand that these monthly returns were prepared at RLM based on GQ6 returns for some statistical purposes. I would say, perspective of filing some gaps in 1944 is very tempting. May I have a couple of questions by PM?
Anyway, we are still lacking a completely different set of losses than a compilation of GQ6. Is there no technical diary of any of the unit available?

[RT]

GQ6 is far to be so worst as you are thinking, recouped with NVM is
"quite ""perfect, troubles is with locations nd sometimes the causes,
for med.area difficult to say sometimes if the dates given are those of the "accident" or the one of the report, minor casualties could missed, but in a whole the one is interested with the losses hv to begin with the GQ6, it give him-her / not so much/ the basic frame up to him to complete as bette as he can
for 1939/1940 the documents produced by Andreas, are not so clear but they exist

remi