German Navy Fokker D.VII

[Stig Jarlevik]

I see your point Clint

However there is no recording from Dutch sources of any Fokker D.VII force landing in Holland on 15.9.1918
All sources I have list only one landing and that is on 15.10.1918

Since Karl Engelfried is listed in the War Chronology, why is he is strangely absent in the two other sources? No Engelfried in Jasta Pilots and no Engelfried interned in Holland on 15.9.1918. Makes me think that maybe the Chronology has an error and Guttman simply repeats it.

The articles I am quoting from are:
Dutch Military Aircraft 1910-1920 (Early purchase of aircraft and the first aircraft manufacturers in the Kingdom of the Netherlands by Johan G.H. Visser (Over the Front Vol 22 No 1 - Spring 2007)

Interned! A list of aeroplanes of all nationalities that were interned by the Dutch authorities after landing in Holland during 1914-1918 by Harry van Dorssen and Frits Gerdessen (Cross & Cockade Vol 16 No 1)

Unexpected windfalls (Accidentally or deliberately, more than 100 aircraft arrived in Dutch territory during the Great War) by Bart van der Klaauw (Air Enthusiast issu no 80 - April/May 1999)

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi Stig,


Looking at your sources and particularly the article titles I would have to agree that the 15 September information is wrong and there's also the later shooting down of a balloon by Engelfried on 26 October.


That leaves Baum in D.5584/18 on the 15 October by default.Correct?


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Anything seems possible by now Clint

I have now read so many small bits and pieces, that I have by now forgotten where I read this, but at least one source "sounded" like the interned pilot (crews) were sent packing home very quickly, while the Dutch very cleverly kept the aeroplanes....

So it is not entirely impossible that our guy (let's call him Karl Engelfried Alfred Baum ) was sent packing across the border and was back with his unit just a couple of days later.

I don't like this "two-names-one-aircraft" situation. Until that is resolved at least I feel very uneasy....

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Stig,


Interestingly (or not!) Casualties of the German Air Service 1914-20 by the same three authors of the Jasta War Chronology, Franks,Bailey and Duiven but published a year later, 1999 vs 1998 has no mention of Engelfried on 15 September. But still mentions Daum on 15 October. Had they spotted an error perhaps in the earlier publication?


Dare we say that this is now an Engelfried free thread?


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

It is undoubtedly an interesting situation we have Clint

Cheers
Stig