Spitfire in France, May-June 1940

[rof120]

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

Rof120,

The Special Survey Flight and 212 Sqn operated PR Spitfires from the following French airfields during 1940:

Bar-le-Duc, Coulommiers, Lille/Seclin, Nancy, Meaux/Villenoy, Le Luc, Bastia, Ajaccio and Orléans/Bricy.

Best regards

Andy Fletcher

- Wow! Many thanks Andy. Obviously Le Luc (far in SE-France near the Mediterrenean), Bastia and Ajaccio (both in Corsica) were used for missions over Italy.

Do you happen to know how many PR Spitfires were used?

[Andy Fletcher]

Originally Posted by rof120

Obviously Le Luc (far in SE-France near the Mediterrenean), Bastia and Ajaccio (both in Corsica) were used for missions over Italy.

Do you happen to know how many PR Spitfires were used?

Rof120,

Indeed you are correct, Le Luc, Bastia and Ajaccio were used for sorties covering Italian targets.

Also just to clarify Bar-le-Duc was used only in 1939 and most sorties from Nancy and Lille were flown prior to May 1940.

I can find eleven different Spitfires that were used by the Special Survey Flight or 212 Sqn for operational sorties during 1939 to June 1940. For the May-June period nine Spitfires were used.

Hope the information is of use.

Best regards

Andy Fletcher

[rof120]

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

Rof120,

(…)

I can find eleven different Spitfires that were used by the Special Survey Flight or 212 Sqn for operational sorties during 1939 to June 1940. For the May-June period nine Spitfires were used.

Hope the information is of use.

Andy Fletcher

- Wow again! Many more thanks.

I never imagined that so many PR Spitfires were sent to France. I would have guessed 2-3. I suspect that Air Marshal Dowding was not aware of this "waste" of his best fighter aircraft for he would have opposed this with great energy. Obviously the Spitfire-secrets, if any, couldn't really be preserved for one example or more could fall into "rude German hands" any time, which indeed was the case (two AC if I understood the above details correctly, possibly more). So the remarkable RR Merlin engine and its interesting supercharger, and the whole design of this aircraft type, were no secret to the enemy already weeks before the Battle of Britain started. In particular climb rate, ceiling and top speed were of interest. I'm curious to know whether this information was circulated to the German fighter units.

On the other hand at least the German top brass was convinced that their equipment was vastly better than anything abroad including in Britain, so that they didn't need to bother. It seems that most German fighter pilots, or all of them, were painfully surprised by the Spitfire's excellent performance, so they were probably not informed after all. (See, among others, Galland's remarks in his first book, "The First and the Last").

Most authors mention that the first Spitfires were based in France only after the landings in Normandy in June 1944. Well, this is true as far as fighters are concerned.

"Hope the information is of use."

- Oh yes, certainly. I find it very interesting myself even though I had asked this question to answer another guy's very old question at last. At the time we were hardly able to give a satisfactory answer.

So many thanks again.

[Andy Fletcher]

Originally Posted by rof120

- Wow again! Many more thanks.

I never imagined that so many PR Spitfires were sent to France. I would have guessed 2-3. I suspect that Air Marshal Dowding was not aware of this "waste" of his best fighter aircraft for he would have opposed this with great energy.

Rof120,

You have to bear in mind that at no time were there ever eleven or nine Spitfires in France at the same time. 212 Sqn was basically the overseas element of the PDU and pilots and machines were interchangeable. Probably the most Spitfires that were in France at one time was half a dozen or so.

Regards Dowding, it was he who Cotton, the driving force behind the formation of the 'PRU', persuaded to supply two Spitfires in 1939 for his (Cotton's) experiment. By the time of the invasion of France the experiment had proved so successful that people more senior than Dowding were pushing for results.

Cheers

Andy Fletcher

[Chris Goss]

Don't forget they were not fighters and therefore not Dowding's

[rof120]

Oh yes, of course I am fully aware of this but the basic aircraft was the same with a few changes to get a PR-Spit: removing the eight guns (or did they retain a few for self-defence? I don't think so.), canopy with bulges and obviously some good cameras. In theory Fighter Command's C-in-C could have refused to see several precious Spitfire-airframes (with engines) changed into unarmed recce AC. At the time (1939) Spitfires were precious few and hotly wanted by FC.

These Spits were not Fighter Command aircraft, this is true, but they could not be delivered secretly to other units than to FC squadrons without Dowding being aware of this.

[rof120]

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

Rof120,

You have to bear in mind that at no time were there ever eleven or nine Spitfires in France at the same time. 212 Sqn was basically the overseas element of the PDU and pilots and machines were interchangeable. Probably the most Spitfires that were in France at one time was half a dozen or so.

- Not bad either.

Regards Dowding, it was he who Cotton, the driving force behind the formation of the 'PRU', persuaded to supply two Spitfires in 1939 for his (Cotton's) experiment. By the time of the invasion of France the experiment had proved so successful that people more senior than Dowding were pushing for results.

Cheers

Andy Fletcher

- Perhaps they conned poor defenceless Dowding by asking first for two Spits only. Later they raised the number but it was too late to say "No" for the reason you mentioned.