ID Bf110's of Stab./ZG76, 1941, need help.

[BrianC]

Hi guys

May I hi-jack your interesting post re Stab/JG76, please?

From your notes it would seem that four (Schwarm) Bf110s comprised Stab - M8+WE, XE, YE and ZE - but who were the pilots? I have Schaschke, Kriegel and Hoffmann. Who was the fourth?

We know that Schaschke gained 21 victories. Kriegel 4 (dates?) and Hoffmann at least 2. The unidentified pilot?

Stay safe

Brian

[Maciej Góralczyk]

Mark, are these the photos you're looking for?



What is interesting, is that Kriegel earlier (February-April 1941) flew another 'Dita 13', most likely a Bf 110 C-4 WNr. 3271, which carried 6 victory bars on the tail fin...

A photo of 'Lony 13' was sold on Ebay in 2015:

[markjsheppard]

Originally Posted by Maciej Góralczyk

Mark, are these the photos you're looking for?



What is interesting, is that Kriegel earlier (February-April 1941) flew another 'Dita 13', most likely a Bf 110 C-4 WNr. 3271, which carried 6 victory bars on the tail fin...

A photo of 'Lony 13' was sold on Ebay in 2015:

Afternoon Maciej,

The first two I have seen. These are of interest as you can see the last letter ??+?E. There is another of a Bf110 not not linked. Its on an airfield, starboard side with the 'Dita13' emblem visible. Can't link it as besides it coming up in Google images (small), when I click on it, it only goes to Evgen's post.

See two different aircraft. The later with deeper oil coolers.

regards,

Mark

[Chris Goss]

From my RK book research, Grabmann (far more senior to Groth) became Jafü Norway in June 41 before taking command of Z.Schule 2 a few months later. Groth took command June/July 41 and then killed 12 Aug 41. Cannot say there was ever any connection

[Maciej Góralczyk]

Originally Posted by markjsheppard

Afternoon Maciej,

The first two I have seen. These are of interest as you can see the last letter ??+?E. There is another of a Bf110 not not linked. Its on an airfield, starboard side with the 'Dita13' emblem visible. Can't link it as besides it coming up in Google images (small), when I click on it, it only goes to Evgen's post.

See two different aircraft. The later with deeper oil coolers.

regards,

Mark

Sorry, I double-posted the same link, I've now corrected the previous post.


I'm still curious about the scoreboard, as like I mentioned earlier, the earlier 'Dita 13' (whose one of the photos was posted by Chris) had 6 victory bars on the tailfin

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by BrianC

Hi guys

May I hi-jack your interesting post re Stab/JG76, please?

From your notes it would seem that four (Schwarm) Bf110s comprised Stab - M8+WE, XE, YE and ZE - but who were the pilots? I have Schaschke, Kriegel and Hoffmann. Who was the fourth?

We know that Schaschke gained 21 victories. Kriegel 4 (dates?) and Hoffmann at least 2. The unidentified pilot?

Stay safe

Brian

Brian

Most likely Walter Grabman. Seems he was very much in favour of the letter X and used aircraft with that letter basically all through his career.

Cheers
Stig

[BrianC]

Hi Stig

Good to hear from you!

Is there any evidence that Grabmann flew operations against the Russians?

Cheers
Stay safe

Brian

[Chris Goss]

Here is one of my photos of Kriegel

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by BrianC

Hi Stig
Is there any evidence that Grabmann flew operations against the Russians?
Brian

I think that is very difficult to say Brian, unless you can get hold of either his own Flugbuch or some other documents that should indicate that. I don't know when he was promoted to General-Major but he took over as Jagdfliegerführer Nord-Norwegen on 1 Aug 1941 even though he had basically already served in such a Jafü leadership position/capacity at least since the war with Soviet Union began.

I doubt the intention was he should fly missions, but who knows? Many "grounded" officers did fly missions anyway....on both sides! He never scored anything against the Russians, so no short-cut there either.

Cheers
Stig

[BrianC]

Hi guys

To continue the hi-jack, if I may -

We know that Grabmann was promoted and posted in August 1941.

Was there a connection with Major Walter Groth's posting, who was killed in an air accident on 13 August, when on his to Kirkenes to take command of Z-Staffel (or Stab/ZG76?

Cheers
Brian