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  #171  
Old 20th November 2020, 14:08
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

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Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski View Post
The myth of German fighter pilots was created in 1950s
Imperial Germany was selling postcards of fighter pilots during the Great War; the NSDAP was fixated on the idea of the warrior-hero and arranged press coverage accordingly.
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  #172  
Old 20th November 2020, 14:33
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

Is it possible, that if Hartmann knew the truth, he could not reveal it later because of the political pressure of the NATO...?
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  #173  
Old 20th November 2020, 15:28
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

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Is it possible, that if Hartmann knew the truth, he could not reveal it later because of the political pressure of the NATO...?
Very possibly, and in any case, the need to lie was taken care of by Toliver and Constable's constantly repeated assertion that the German claims verification system was super-effective, a myth that persists to this day as it seems
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  #174  
Old 20th November 2020, 17:57
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

Perhaps another silly question....

Did the Germans ever develop/use gun cameras?
Not even they were (are) 100% reliable, but when taken in use by the Allies must have gotten rid of all sorts of fancy claims

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  #175  
Old 20th November 2020, 20:32
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

Nick, the fact that Germans were pursuing careers of their aces does not mean the world should follow. In fact there was an explosion of stories about German superheroes just when the enemy known of mass murders and concentration camps had to become the key ally in Europe.
Re Toliver, I recall to read that he was a CIA's employee or at least an associate. That said, I am fairly certain of that, but cannot find any source just at the moment.
I bet there is plenty of paperwork in that, still classified.
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  #176  
Old 20th November 2020, 21:06
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

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Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski View Post
Nick, the fact that Germans were pursuing careers of their aces does not mean the world should follow.
Franek, when you have had the opportunity to read my post with a little more care, you will see that nowhere did I suggest that anyone should do anything of the kind. I simply pointed out that the talking-up of “aces” for public consumption had being going on since the Great War.
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  #177  
Old 21st November 2020, 00:10
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

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Originally Posted by Nick Beale View Post
Franek, when you have had the opportunity to read my post with a little more care, you will see that nowhere did I suggest that anyone should do anything of the kind. I simply pointed out that the talking-up of “aces” for public consumption had being going on since the Great War.
Yes, sure. I was replying to other posts as well, and referring to a post war worldwide myth.
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  #178  
Old 21st November 2020, 01:13
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

I ask always, how it happend, so many generals of after war bundesluftwaffe come from JG52: Rall, Barkhorn, Obleser, Krupinski, Hrabak, Steinhoff, someone else??? I don't know if this was special politic of US and BRD "HR" departments and such books as Toliver & Constable should help to position the people in the right light
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  #179  
Old 21st November 2020, 07:07
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

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Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik View Post
Perhaps another silly question....

Did the Germans ever develop/use gun cameras?
Not even they were (are) 100% reliable, but when taken in use by the Allies must have gotten rid of all sorts of fancy claims

Cheers
Stig

Yes gun cameras were used by the Germans but they were too resource poor to stick gun cameras in each and every aircraft.
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  #180  
Old 21st November 2020, 12:35
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

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Yes gun cameras were used by the Germans but they were too resource poor to stick gun cameras in each and every aircraft.
Thanks

Thus it begs the question, who used them?
Not much point in putting them inside the rookies aircraft....

Cheers
Stig
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