Portuguese Hawks

[Alex Smart]

hello,

I have read that the Portuguese Air Force received only twelve Curtis Hawks from Great Britain.

And that one of these a/c crashed leaving only eleven that were given serial numbers in the 4 to 500 range.

I have found that at least fifteen Mohawk'swere sent to Portugal.
Anyone got answer or can give reason for the difference in numbers ?

Alex

[Ruy Horta]

Perhaps not the answer, but I have the following data from Os Aviões da Cruz de Christo, by Mário Canongia Lopes. A laminated hard cover 367 page bilingual publication, a.k.a. The Airplanes of the Cross of Christ, on Portuguese combat aircraft and their markings. Originally published in 1989 it has been revised and reprinted in 2000 and running a second edition in 2001. It can be bought for around € 50,- and it is money well spent if you enjoy this type of subject. It had me smiling for at least two days in a row (and it still does when I pick it up)!

Small warning, the fact that it is bilingual doesn't mean that it has been professionally translated by a native English speaker - so there is the occasional mistake, with or without causing some confusion. I don't mind, it forces me to compare with the original text (good for learning Portuguese - which is still half of my origin), but this may be a cause for some irritation for those who can't stand bad spelling etc etc etc.

Still I can only highly recommend this classic work on the subject!!

So back to the subject.

H.75-A4 delivery date 21-8-1941, RAF nos.
AR 668
AR 679
AX 882
BB 927
BJ 531
BJ 547
BJ 548
BK 582
BL 220
BS 732

H.75-A4 delivery date 10-10-1941, RAF nos
AR 642
AR 652
AR 680
AX 886
BS 789

6 were damaged on transport, 11 accepted by the Aeronáutica Militar.

Nos. 480-490

In 1943 their markings were augmented by the squadron call sign XY.

two marking examples

XY + C 482
XY + F 485

[Stig Jarlevik]

Ruy

Those of us buying first editions DO seems to be punished quite hard.
The 1989 edition of the book is neither very accurate nor translated (not even by a bad negotiator...). The rubbish listed under the Mohawk could easily have been avoided by the author if he had tried to contact a competent person in Britain. I doubt that former Portuguese records are to be blamed for the five faulty ex serials listed at the time plus those missing!!

However it looks like Snr Lopes maintaines in his updated book that six were damaged in transit and 11 put in service (which adds up to 17 in all, if we follow plain maths). If 15 were sent, at least TWO of these six were in such a case repaired!

Since Portuguese records BEFORE WW 2 leaves MUCH to be desired, maybe this is the case with their records from WW2 as well??

Cheers
Stig

PS: Not all of us can afford to spend "double" money constantly buying so called updated books all the time. Especially since I have yet to find an author who send out to reviewers all the mistakes they have done in version 1, appologises and offers update sheets to their first book.....

[Ruy Horta]

I cannot comment on the accuracy, but your math might be too restrictive.

Why is it problematic if two of those 6 damaged a/c were accepted?

Again. I maintain that for an exotic subject as the Portuguese AFs, this book is still very nice to have. Is it perfect, in many ways it isn't, but I'm personally happy with it.

If someone can find a better book (especially in English) I'm certainly game!

EDIT: underline word was edited, I made a mistake typing the sentence.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Ruy
My comments concerns the FIRST edition
My comments regarding the 6 damaged and possibly two REPAIRED is my own thinking. As far as I can tell from YOUR comments from edition two is that the author does not bother to comment this fact. I don't know if this is correct or not. YOU have the second edition, I could only afford the FIRST!!
My comments regarding the first edition is that the author, if he had tried just a little harder, could have produced a far better book!!

Cheers
Stig

[Ruy Horta]

Stig,

You may be right, but the Mohawk is just a small part of more than 75 years of a/c history described. Again, since I know of no other similar work, I cannot compare. Regardless, for the subject at hand it is still very nice.

What I miss is more information on exact colors and schemes. So to each his own, right?

M.C. Lopes also wrote a (bi)lingal book on Hurricanes and Spitfires in FAP use, looking forward to reading that one too one day.

So what's your link with the FAP?

[Alex Smart]

Hello Gentlemen,

Many thanks for the responce.

I have the same serial numbers from Air britain series.
So there looks to have been 15 sent to Portugal from the U.K.
But only 11 used by the Portuguese. Perhaps the others were damaged as reported or perhaps kept back as spare parts too.

All the best

Alex

[Stig Jarlevik]

Ruy

No link to Portugal, except that I am interested in the smaller air forces around the globe. Unfortunately most authors from the smaller nations are not reciprocal, or haven't been so in the past. Not much is published for example in English with regard to Latin America, Spain and Portugal.
A second book I bought from Portugal was Aeronaves militares Portuguesas no seculo xx. Published in 2000, nothing in English there either. Perhaps Snr Lopes has started to realise this with his updated edition, but again unfortunately, I don't have it.

Cheers
Stig

[mmourato]

Hi,
In addition to what has been posted, the book "Spitfires and Hurricanes in Portugal" says that 15 were indeed delivered. It says that some sources claim that a 16th was delivered but that is false.
In the book it cites a telegram sent by the British Embassy in Lisbon to Britain saying that "Of the [15] Mohawks delivered 1 has been written off and 8 damaged, 6 of which by sea water contamination whilst in transit. Some of the 8 can be repaired. In order to make up the 2 squadrons Portugal have asked for more." [eventually no more Mohawks were sent]
So 15 were delivered, some were damaged, a few were repaired and 11 were accepted for service.
My interest in the Portuguese Air Force is just that I am, well...portuguese!

Cheers,
Miguel

[Ruy Horta]

Bem vindo au nosso forum!

Well that's about the most Portuguese writing you'll get out of me.

My dad's Portuguese, I'm more of a tourist. But I love Portugal.



Right now I am really missing my Vinho Verde and fresh Sardines...

Back to the subject.

How would you rate the Cruz book in general?