Navy F4F vs Zero

[CJE]

Thanks, Juha.
I don't have this book and it would appreciate that you check it for me.

However, how can a pilot mistake a Zero with a Val with its fixed u/c?
In Olynyk's list there are only 3 Zeros claimed, all by the SBD crew Leppla/Liska. All fighter pilots claimed "VF Type 96's" and "VF Type 97's".
Knowing how serious Frank's work is, I stick to that.

[Juha]

Hello CJE
Type 96 was A5M Claude so Type 97 was probably something which USN expected to be the next IJN fighter but IMHO the info on Zero which filtered down to USN fighter pilots was not something very trustworthy even if IIRC USN had got reports on Zero from China but had lost them somewhere in the system. I'll check the book tonight.

Juha

[Juha]

Hello CJE
According to Lundstrom op.cit. p. 203 Brainard Macomber was the first F4F pilot to attack Zero (W.O. Imamura). It was he who was thinking that because of Zero's long canopy he was attacking a 2 seater. Also Macomber's wingman, Bassett, who rescued his leader when the surprisingly agile 2 seater manoeuvred towards Macomber's tail, thought that the E/A was some sort of bomber. Bassett moved behind preoccupied Imamura and fired a long burst. At the first sight of enemy tracers, the Zero rolled out and away, then poured on the speed in a fast dive toward the water...and got slowly away from Bassett but was then surprised by Haas, who dived in for a good stern shot and fired a long burst. Zero burst into flames.
P. 204 and plowed into sea. Both Macomber and Bassett witnessed the splash. Haas kill went into records as a Type 96 fighter because of the confusion of a/c recognition according to Lundstrom.

HTH
Juha

[CJE]

It seems to have legs.
Frank Olynyk list Macomber's prey as an Aichi Type 99 dive bomber.
AFAK, "Vals" had a fixed u/c, something Macomber cannot have missed.
But, you're right, great was the confusion in the recognition manuals at that time... Not speaking of "Me 109's", I even found a "Kagekiki VT" - wonder where this name came from?

Thank you very much, Juha. I think the matter is settled.

[CJE]

Sorry, I answered too quickly before checking my files.
Lundstrom is just adding more confusion in my head!

Macomber and Haas' kills were recorded around 1800.
The Japanese archives state that no Zero took part in the raid because they couldn't fly and land in the dark!

The only Zeroes recorded in the morning were shot down by VS-5 and VS-2.

[Juha]

Hello CJE
Those combats happened during the attack on Shoho, was that around 11 AM on the 7th? Macomber was first to attack Zero but Imamura, using his a/c's better manouevrability, was working towards his tail when Bassett intervened and forced Imamura to disenagage. Bassett also claimed that he probably got some hits to Imamura's Zero but it could still draw away from him. And after that Haas attacked. So there was 3 F4Fs attacking one Zero. Macomber was first to attack but Haas was first to kill. It seems that I left one important "the" out in my earlier message.

Juha

[Antoine]

Just my two euro cents, I can only back up Juha comments about John Lunström's book, they're unavoidable concerning this particular subject, and in my view very near to be the definitive work on that campaign (If a definitive work exist).
History, technics, tactics, everything's there.
I've just checked at La maison du livre aviation in Paris, they still have the first volume, and I think that the second one can be obtained easily from amazon or abebook, for example.