I./ZG 1 claims in 1939 - 1940 - any info?

[Mikkel Plannthin]

Denmark - 09.04.40
Vaerløse (airfield outside Copenhagen), Lieutenant V.Gotfredsen (pilot) and 2nd Lieutenant G.F.Brodersen (observer), Fokker C.V. M/33 'R.49', appr. 5.20 a.m. (local time). A/C attacked during take off.

According to Tony Wood's Combat Claims & Casualties List, the German pilot credited with this claim is Hptm. Wolfgang Falck, Stab I.ZG 76.

Since this is the only Danish loss, it would be the only claim.

Mikkel Plannthin

[Evgeny Velichko]

THX.

Do You mean this claim?

09.04.40 Hptm. Wolfgang Falck: 7 Stab I.ZG 1 Fokker  Vaerlöse (Dänemark) 06.38 Refer: Williams re. Perry

And according this site http://www.ww2.dk/air/zerstorer/zg1.htm, following Falck's claims must be with I./ZG 1 too?

10.01.40 Hptm. Wolfgang Falck: 5 Stab I./ZG 1 Blenheim  Nordsee: Pl.Qu. 565 12.57 Refer: Williams re. Perry
17.02.40 Hptm. Wolfgang Falck: 6 Stab I./ZG 1 Blenheim  Nordsee: Pl.Qu. Ida-Dora 16.10 Refer: Williams re. Perry

Also, I know only about one additional claim on this period of I./ZG 1:

15.04.40 Uffz. Helmut Eberlein: - 3./ZG 1 Hudson  W. Skaggerrak 15.50 Refer: Prien/Bock re. Perry

And... What about Werner Streibs claim - Blenheim on 10 may 1940? Any info & confirmation?

With Best wishes, Eugen.

[Mikkel Plannthin]

Yes, I mean the first claim you mention. That is the only claim of a Danish aircraft at the time of the german occupation on 9 April 1940.

For further info on the airwar over Denmark, I would refer to http://www.flensted.eu.com/

Mikkel

[Franek Grabowski]

Eugene or Evgeniy?
Just a word of caution with the early claims of ZG1. Documents were lost and it is not possible to verify the data. For example, both Polish losses on 5 September could have been due to collision but there are losses on 4 September that may possibly be attributed to ZG1.

[Evgeny Velichko]

Evgeniy is more correct But never mind

2 Marius & Franek Grabowski- Thanks for info about Polish claims!

When its clear, I'am now more interested in 1940 claims of Gruppe.

For example, claims over Holland, claims over Dunkirk (i know, Tratt had 3 there - any more?)...

2 Mikkel Plannthin

For further info on the airwar over Denmark, I would refer to http://www.flensted.eu.com/

I found interesting moment on this site:
From memoryes of Wolfgang Falck - . Turning toward the northwest, I head for Aalborg where my unit should be waiting. On the way, I see one of my Bf 110's that has force-landed in a meadow. Banking around, I can see the pilot standing on the wing surrounded by a mob of Danish soldiers- "A bad situation! What do I do?". I decided to take a chance and land, as I taxi over to the downed aircraft, there is no overt hostility from the Danish troops. The pilot explains that he was hit by ground fire and had been treated very well by the Danes who were under the command of a young captain to whom he introduces me. The pilot has already been in touch with Aalborg, which was in our hands after a paratroop drop of only a platoon. Aaiborg was already sending a replacement engine. I thanked the Danish captain for the treatment of my pilot, got back in my aircraft and continued on to Aalborg.

Bf 110 landed at Skejby Mark near Aarhus 9/4 1940. The aircraft belonged to I./ ZG 1 and was coded 2N+H?. At 08:45 hours the Bf 110 made a normal landing at Skejby Mark due to engine problems. Sources: Helme, CP, JJ.

(Via Herluf Rasmussen)

Am I right?

[Marius]

Eugen,

Documents were lost and it is not possible to verify the data.

This is not true. Some documents are lost, other documents are safe. According to survived documents the collision on the 5th mentioned by Franek could have happened, but only during the aerial fighting of 112 eskadra with another German formation. It was reported by a Polish pilot long after the campaign`s end and has no confirmation in any other document. However this "maybe collision" has nothing to do with the mission flown by I./ZG 1.

And I don`t know anything about further Polish losses you could attribute to I./ZG 1 on the 4th September (up to the mentioned P.23 in Naklo area).

Regards,
Marius

[Franek Grabowski]

Privet Evgeniy
Now you may see by yourself. There are no documents, this causing some claims speculative, but there are documents making them not speculative.
Be careful with those data and take them with a grain of salt.
Regarding combat of 5 September - there is an account of an airman who took part in the battle and who was killed in 1941, so the account could not have been written long after the events. More, in the account the one may find a suggestion, that one of the fallen pilots may have been hit by enemy (it was considered to be more 'honorary' to be killed by enemy and not by an ordinary collision), but otherwise it is extremelly clear that the cause was a collision.
Concerning other possible kills of ZG1, kpt. pil. Leśniewski is one distinctive possibility, shot down by Me 110s on 4 September, some other aircraft being shot up. I have scans of original 1939 documents.
History is not one sided.
I am sending a note to moderators to have a closer look on the thread.

[Marius]

We had an unproductive discussion with Franek before a long time concerning the Polish unit III/4 and the German opponent I./ZG 1. It seems it brought completely nothing.

it is extremelly clear that the cause was a collision

In fact nothing is clear. "An account of an airman"... Just one simple question to Franek: What is the name of this airman?

By the way, this "maybe-collision" is completely uninteresting concerning the victories of I./ZG 1. Por. Okrzeja of the 112 eskadra was one of the fallen pilots, but he fought with Do 17`s of I./KG 2.

kpt. pil. Leśniewski is one distinctive possibility, shot down by Me 110s on 4 September

Kpt.Rolski seems to be the only one who wrote about a "Bf 110" on this day. In fact the pilots of III/4 saw no differences between a Do 17 and a Bf 110. They even didn`t know what a Bf 110 was.
For them both types - the unknown Bf 110 as well as the Do 17 - were just Do 17`s (look to the 2th September 1939 fightings were all Bf 110`s of ZG 1 were described as Do 17`s).
The so called "Bf 110" on the 4th were just Bf 109`s of I.(J)/LG 2. The German unit claimed 3 victories. The "Bf 110" stated by Rolski was just a mistake. German records so far do not confirm that I./ZG 1 flew this sortie.

I have scans of original 1939 documents.

You mean Polish documents. I think this is a very important difference. But regarding the participating German aircraft types these documents are
(almost) useless.

I am sending a note to moderators to have a closer look on the thread.

A very good idea! The last time your fellowman Mirek was starting with furious personal attacks. I hope you make it better Franek.

Best wishes,
Marius