DO17 shot down by No 1 Squadron.02/03/40.

[Bernard]

Good evening,

On the second of march 1940 at about 11h30, Sgt Soper and P/O Mitchell of No 1 Squadron shot down a Do17 wich crash-landed near La-Petite-Pierre 15 miles NE of Sarrebourg. Two crew members were taken prisonners.

Sources: AIR 27/1, AIR 50/1 p17 Brown, p190 Soper.
Air 35/253. 67 Fighter Wing Combat report N° 5. 02/3/1940.

During this mission, F/O Brown had to force-land after his airscrew desintegrated and P/O Mitchell was killed for stalling on a force-landing approach.

Could anyone let me know about this Dornier unit and his crew, were the other crew members killed?

Many thanks.

Bernard.

[Peter Cornwell]

Bernard,

These are the details I have to date:

1 SQUADRON Hurricane L1974. Propeller disintegrated during pursuit of Do17P of 4.(F)/11 over Metz and made dead-stick belly-landing at Nancy 11.15 a.m. Flying Officer M. H. Brown unhurt. Aircraft repairable.

1 SQUADRON Hurricane L1671. Engine damaged by return fire from Do17P of 4.(F)/11 engaged over Metz and crashed attempting forced-landing at Fénétrange, south of Sarre-Union, 12.00 p.m. Pilot Officer J. S. Mitchell killed. Aircraft a write-off.

4.(F)/11 Dornier Do17P. Shot down by P/O Mitchell and Sgt Soper of No.1 Sqdn and crashed at La Petite-Pierre 11.05 a.m. Oberlt Leopold and two crew killed. Aircraft a write-off.


If anyone can provide full details of the Dornier crew I would be grateful.

[RT]

Hey not all the days we could complete the list of Peter, Leupold+ an other killed, FW BÜR HEINZ Fr.Gefangenschaft, return on 300640

remi

[Bernard]

Many thanks to you Peter and RT.

Bernard.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Peter

A couple of points

Both Shores and Halley prefer L1971 as the Hurricane lost by Mitchell.
L1671 is listed as lost in France during May 1940. New info at your end or finger trouble?

Since the Do 17 was claimed shot down 11.05H I am puzzled by the time stated for Mitchell's crash. It is reasonable to assume that Mitchell actually was shot down at (or slightly before) 11.05H as well. Why should it take him 55 minutes to crash, especially if he is on fire, his a/c was emitting a lot of smoke!

Cheers
Stig

[Bernard]

Hello,

According to No 1 Squadron's F541 for 2 nd of march 1940 :

P/O Mitchell ( L 1671 ): take off on patrol at 10h45_ killed.
Sgt Soper ( L1843 ): take off on patrol at 10h55, return at 12h15.
P/O Brown ( L1974 ): take off at 10h55_ crash landed.

According to Sgt Soper' s combat report ( AIR 50/1 p 190 ), who
assisted Michell in selecting a field for him, the engagement was
at 11h45.

Best regards.

Bernard.

[Peter Cornwell]

Stig,

Not new information but correct interpretation of existing records which Bernard has already quoted you - my thanks Bernard. The only 'finger trouble' this end was in respect of the time of the Do17 loss which, I note, should have read 11.45 a.m. - mea culpa.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Guys

Since No 1 Sq used BOTH aircraft, why are you so certain that F1671 is correct? Other docs must have L1971 listed instead. Jim Halley for instance must have read some kind of record card to make his statement. The difference is just one digit turned upside down. The fault could be just as easily done in the document you guys quote as in the other!
Just curious!!
Cheers
Stig

[Bernard]

Good morning,

Tracing Hurricanes in the Battle of France is a real nightmare !

Checking No 1 Squadron ORB, I find that S/Ldr Halahan force-landed L1671 on the 12th of may 1940........

Considering that the last No 1 Squadron F541 available for this period is the 30th april 1940 's, the last ressource would be log books or aircraft cards.

Does anyone know if No 1 Squadron pilots log books for the Battle of France period are available somewhere ?

Best regards.

Bernard.

[Peter Cornwell]

Bernard & Stig,

You are right, Bernard, BAFF serials during the campaign in France is certainly a problem & I regularly find myself at odds with previously published accounts. To illustrate the point, herewith my 'take' on the fate of L1971.

7 December 1939

1 SQUADRON Hurricane L1971. Lost bearings during routine patrol and severely damaged in forced-landing at St Dizier. Pilot Officer P. Matthews unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.

Any surviving logbooks of the period will be deposited in the RAF Museum or IWM but I do not know exactly what either of them holds. Finally, Stig, I wish I could be as certain of anything as some others seem to be of everything.