Photo Nieuport

[Stig Jarlevik]

Fritz was his nick name

Actually named Friedrich Friedrichs which sounds a bit "unengaged" by his parents....

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of RFC Nieuport 20 A154 at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/37376963171...QAAOSwOkxheB2-


This image will be familiar to readers of J.M. Bruce's Aircraft of the Royal Flying Corps,but appeared to be woth posting give the size and quality of the photo.


Regards,


Clint

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of a downed RFC 1 Squadron Nieuport 23 at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/393668453290...UAAOSwIwdhgRZS


Regards,


Clint

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay there is a photo of a Nieuport with 7072 on the tailplane at:


https://www.ebay.it/itm/265400495968...AAAOSwVsFhjLZP


TBH, I'm not sure what to make of this photo - either a Nieuport 16 or Nieuport 21 seem possibilities identificationwise,with the headrest and partially exposed engine cylinders,but I 've no other Nieuport serials in the 70** range. Any thoughts ?


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

I have long since given up myself trying to ID the WW 1 Nieuports and only do it in a sort of general average way.

Even having a photo showing the SFA number, it can still be tricky since we also have to deal with the high numbered Nieuport trainers, ie type 80 - 83.

With the Americans buying up huge number of French aircraft a good rule is to check Casari, if possible, and in this case we are lucky.
No 7072 was a Nieuport 83E2 actually acquired by the Americans.

Another good rule seems to be that these trainers look very old and have high SFA serial numbers, for example all the American type 80-83 were in the range No 7038 - 10653.
Actually why SFA gave so "small" batch orders to these various Nieuport models is another mystery, at least to me.
Within the range 7038 - 10653 are intermixed Nieuport 24, 24bis, 24E1, 24bisE1, 27, 27E1, 28A and even a single type 21 (No 7001)

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Stig,


While I'm not going to challenge Casari and accept that N.7072 was an American operated Nieuport 83 E2, I wonder if the 7072 seen in the photo is a Nieuport 83. It looks like a single seater and it has a headrest. Now I've not seen enough photos of Nieuport 83 to say that none had a headrest,so still may be, perhaps. Does Casari indicate if any were converted to single seaters? Alternatively were any Nieuport 16 or 21 converted to Nieuport 83,which would deal with any serial discrepencies.Albeit the Nieuport 83 is usually said to be based on the Nieuport 10.Also do the roundels look American on the machine in the photo?. Hard to be definite.


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

I agree it looks like single-seater, and no Casari does not mention any conversions.

No idea if the head rest is any indicator of which type it was.
Before going on I want to correct an error in my previous e-mail, there were more Nieuport 21 listed by Casari in the 7000 range (last mentioned 7007!)
Sorry about that.

The problem with these late production Nieuport trainers (all of them were intended solely to be used as trainers, basic and advanced by the Americans), are possibly the Americans themselves.

As an example 900 Nieuport 21 were ordered by the US to be shipped to USA and used as trainers there. This order was later cancelled and replaced with other types, but it is not entirely impossible that some of these 21s were actually produced as such but listed in various documents as different models.
That is pure speculation from my side, but the photo of 7072 is rather provoking. It would also explain the very odd assignment of SFA numbers to the Americans.

The roundels are easier to explain. Lots of the aircraft delivered to the Americans came with French roundels and from the photos I have seen were retained when used in France.

Cheers
Stig