Hartmann: claims vs. victories

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by BenFolk

Hi

Such losses were not recorded in Russian documents. Most of the time the planes came back by truck or pulled by a tractor.

So an aerial victory for the Germans, but not an aerial victory for today's historians.

Regards
BenFolk

Two points

One
A very good way of hiding away post war research. If this is correct that the Russians never recorded force landed aircraft and their repairs, there are surely thousands of German claims which can never be verified.

Two
And why should not such an aircraft not be counted as a valid German claim?
As far as I go, the only mistake made by the Luftwaffe was not to locate the damaged aircraft and strafe it to destruction.

Oh and Gabor, regarding a flat tyre, I can assure you it can easily wipe out your car, depending on where you get it.
I was some 25 km away from any useful place on Iceland when I got one. The wheel had of course been attached by a machine and was totally stuck.
I had to drive some 13-14km on that tyre before reaching some help from a by passer. It took both our strength to get that wheel off.
Incidentally you can assure a rented car for practically anything you can imagine on Iceland, except one thing....flat tyres.....

Cheers
Stig

[robert]

Seems that the book will be not unbiased. My loss list (when published) will show also the aircraft that returned with 1 bullet holes. Of course I will not track down each such loss but I will show all that will be found.

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by robert

1) Seems that the book will be not unbiased.

2) My loss list (when published) will show also the aircraft that returned with 1 bullet holes. Of course I will not track down each such loss but I will show all that will be found.

1) Upon what do you base your statement that the book will not be unbiased, given that it has not been published yet? Unless you have seen an advance copy...

2) When will this be published, and by whom? I will be looking to pick up a copy.

[HGabor]

Hi John, here it is:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Verified-Vi...6&unfiltered=1

Gabor

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by HGabor

Hi John, here it is:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Verified-Vi...6&unfiltered=1

Gabor

Yeah, next year. That's why I asked Robert how he knew the book 'will not be unbiased'. Waiting for his answer...

[HGabor]

Stig, I can assure you that picking up a belly landed plane by the mechanics was not an issue in Hungary as long as it landed on their own side. The nature of WWII that swept across Hungary did not leave a cm long gap between Soviet ground forces along the front lines, so everything was accessible. OTER, BAO and other mechanic organizations were not made for no reason ;-)

Robert: you'll see it next year ;-)

Gabor

P.S.: RLM LP regulations also had a thing to say about enemy aircraft belly landing on enemy territory [hint, hint, hint ;-) ]

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by HGabor

Stig, I can assure you that picking up a belly landed plane by the mechanics was not an issue in Hungary as long as it landed on their own side. The nature of WWII that swept across Hungary did not leave a cm long gap between Soviet ground forces along the front lines, so everything was accessible. OTER, BAO and other mechanic organizations were not made for no reason ;-)

Gabor

P.S.: RLM LP regulations also had a thing to say about enemy aircraft belly landing on enemy territory [hint, hint, hint ;-) ]

No, I agree with that.
That is always a problem when you fight a defensive war and in this case were constantly on the run.

I was just ribbing you a little with regard to the flat tyre....

Cheers
Stig