Luftwaffe Captured NAA-64 Serial Numbers?

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Tom Willis

Can you give me anymore information about where - when and what was found?
As far as I know the French Armee de i'Air order for 200 aircraft started from the Serial Number 64-2033. Your SN would make this the 4th aircraft within the order. If (as in the usual case) they would follow on from the French Serial numbers. This case being the 4th aircraft was later captured by the Germans from mid 1940

I am not sure the French serial will follow the constructor number or if they will be given in reception order.

[Tom Willis]

Thanks Laurent
The NAA 57 No 157 I have listed as with 2./JG107 crashing near Toul with 80% damage but the date is 23.03.43 and not 1944. Can you please confirm your date or is mine a mistake? - Thanks
Also any chance of giving the details of location and damage of the French Accidents as I have several being captured later by the Germans - Thanks

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

I am not sure the French serial will follow the constructor number or if they will be given in reception order.

One can of course never be sure, but I believe the aircraft were painted in French markings already in USA, and if NA didn't screw things up, there is a good chance they actually came into France in c/n vs Adl'A s/n (No) order

Also thanks for the loss details Laurent. Very much appreciated!!

Cheers
Stig

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Tom Willis

Thanks Laurent
The NAA 57 No 157 I have listed as with 2./JG107 crashing near Toul with 80% damage but the date is 23.03.43 and not 1944. Can you please confirm your date or is mine a mistake? - Thanks
Also any chance of giving the details of location and damage of the French Accidents as I have several being captured later by the Germans - Thanks

For the NAA 57, my source is an article in the magazine Avions n°88 (July 2000) by C Archambault and P Lapierre about the losses of non operational units of Luftwaffe in France in March 1944. The associated loss list says that on 23 March Uffz Albert Roos of JG 107 was killed and his NAA 57 WNr 157 destroyed a 80% in a crash near Toul.
The Volksbund database has 14 Albert Roos, including none in March 1943 and one on 23 March 1944 who died near Toul.
So I guess the 1944 date is correct.

As for the French losses in 1939-1940, I took them from a PDF compiled by the French Historical service. AFAIK it is no more available on its website bu is in a genealogical website here:
https://genealomaniac.fr/rechercher/..._pub_00000363/
(I checked the file is the same than the one I downloaded in 2016).
This file will give you date, location, aircraft type, serial number, and the name of the pilot/crew... but nothing about the fate of crew and of aircraft. I checked a part of these files in the archives years ago, and some files are for incidents when aircraft got lost and landed almost withou damage. Also here was no clear code for wrecked aircraft, and some time it is unclear if the aircraft was repaired or not. I only took notes then from aircraft clearly destroyed or for which there was at least one fatality, so can provide if I dig into my papers some details for grave accidents, but will have nothing on other (basically the ones where the repaired aircraft will be used later by the Luftwaffe).

[Jim P.]

Tom, I have:

N.A.A. 57, 157, Roos, Uffz. Albert, , , , JG 107, , , , , 23-Mar-44, Killed in crash due to pilot error., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.97, , bei Toul, 80%, H, , ,

[Tom Willis]

Thanks Laurent & Jim
Much appreciated Loss List of French Types. Just a quick glance there are many unusual items with no makers name but just Type ??? Were these prototypes?
Thanks both of you for confirming the NAA57 loss date as 1944. easy as typos creep in.

[harrison987]

Originally Posted by Tom Willis

Can you give me anymore information about where - when and what was found?
As far as I know the French Armee de i'Air order for 200 aircraft started from the Serial Number 64-2033. Your SN would make this the 4th aircraft within the order. If (as in the usual case) they would follow on from the French Serial numbers. This case being the 4th aircraft was later captured by the Germans from mid 1940

I cannot...

Main data plate was found, along with other insignificant parts. Data plate clearly shows the serial number. Found somewhere in Poland.

That is all I know.

Mike

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Tom Willis

Much appreciated Loss List of French Types. Just a quick glance there are many unusual items with no makers name but just Type ??? Were these prototypes?

From my own experiences with these reports, they are just inventories of the archives box listing accident reports (1st colonne, carton, ex 2B142 covers reports from 1st December 1939 to 15 January 1940).
These reports cover all territory controlled by France, France itself and its colonies in Africa and Indochina. Most are rather complete, but some contain only one telegram from some local responsable saying an aircraft crashed there, sometimes with fatalities... but no type, no name, etc... Other are barely readable and so on....

So my humble opinion is that this file (and the corresponding file for 1943-1945) are listing all losses still listed in the archives, not all that occured. Still it is more or less complete for metropolitan France in 1939-1940, it rather in colonies that there is a lack a data sometimes. ALso some reports concern foreign aircraft (some RAF ones) or Aeronavale ones (the French Fleet Air Arm), but are very rare and only a very small part of such crashes in French territory.

Just to say that entries without maker name can be divided in three categories:
_ incomplete short loss reports
_ ground accidents or Armée de l'Air people killed in civilian aircraft (one case for the latter I know)
_ balloons (technically depending of the Army, so probably with the same low percentage of reports than Aéronavale but I am far from being a specialist)